Violent Media and Right Thought

[Kyonin]

Hi Ryan,

Thank you for bringing up that ol'post of mine. I still think like I did back then. I have found that violence in entertainment is hard for me to swallow, but my mind works rather oddly.

I used to love metal and industrial, but I can't take the violence any more. I listen to that from time to time, but I now go for more symphonic and epic stuff like Blind Guardian. Now I listen more to jazz and blues than anything else. Jazz in particular seems very compatible with Zen practice. And I guess I'm just old.

In movies and series, I go with science fiction like Star Trek. I also like super hero stuff like The Flash or The Arrow. There's violence in them, but there's always a good and heroic reason for it. I watch a lot of documentaries.

In videogames I love to be the hero and kill monsters or demons or robots. It's satisfying, but I would never do that kind of stuff in real life.

At the end I think it all comes down to intention and to go with whatever makes you feel at peace.

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Shoki]

For me it depends on the person involved and context. I'm not really too familiar with some of the violent music around today but back in the Stone Age when I was a teenager there were a lot of violent references in music. Neil Young; Down By the River (I shot my baby. Shot her dead). Jimi Hendrix; Hey Joe (I'm going down to shoot my old lady), etc. It had no effect on me. They were just stories about people. Characters. But if I were a violent psychopath maybe they would have inspired me to kill somebody. I don't know. Although this type of music is not as aggressive and in your face of some stuff that came later. I remember musicians testifying before Congress in the '80s who were trying to convince the lawmakers you'd have to be violent to begin with to take this music to violent action. Judas Priest actually were charged and acquitted with contributing to a suicide.

As for movies, if they're cheap slasher movies with gratuitous violence that's one thing. Then there's a move like The Godfather. Graphic violence about murderers but an epic film. One of the greatest ever. There is a moral to the story. I saw a video once of a film maker's analysis of the movie. Especially the restaurant scene. The one where Al Pacino shoots Solozzo and McCluskey at the table. It's pretty bloody and graphic. But it's not stupid. People analyzed the scene from a film maker's view. How the sound of the train approaching heightens the tension before the shooting. How Michael Corleone searching for the gun looks for a minute like he might not find it. Then what would he do? How Solozzo looks a little suspicious while clueless McCluskey is stuffing his face with veal. (It's the best in the city). A detached technical analysis. Not people getting their jollies over watching people die. Maybe if I was some gangster wanna be I'd think; Cool. I'd like to do that. How do these movies and music make you feel? Will it lead to bad thoughts and actions or not?

Gassho
STlah
James

[Bokugan]

Again, I deeply appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts!

I agree Joshua, having that reminder every once in a while of what humans are capable of can help keep things in perspective.

Quoting myself, is that like talking to yourself?

I went through the books I own and this topic is also discussed in:

Buddha Mind, Buddha Body - Walking toward enlightenment.
Transforming the Base
The Path of Emancipation
The Heart of the Buddha's teaching.

Also Peace Is Every Step is a compilation of two texts, one of which is Breath, Know You Are Alive! so that is another option.

There is also a section in Essential Writings that covers this as well. Also a compilation.

It might be covered in other texts, but it is addressed in the above.

Hope this Helps.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

Hi Shinshi,

That is very helpful! Thank you. I keep a list of books to read and will add these to it. It is ever growing, but I'll probably bump one or two up in the queue.

I used to love metal and industrial, but I can't take the violence any more. I listen to that from time to time, but I now go for more symphonic and epic stuff like Blind Guardian. Now I listen more to jazz and blues than anything else. Jazz in particular seems very compatible with Zen practice. And I guess I'm just old.

In movies and series, I go with science fiction like Star Trek. I also like super hero stuff like The Flash or The Arrow. There's violence in them, but there's always a good and heroic reason for it. I watch a lot of documentaries.

In videogames I love to be the hero and kill monsters or demons or robots. It's satisfying, but I would never do that kind of stuff in real life.

At the end I think it all comes down to intention and to go with whatever makes you feel at peace.

Hi Kyonin,

Sure thing -- I was happy to find that post, as I have been hitting some similar thoughts recently.

Not sure that it is a truly direct correlation to my practice, but I have been getting more into jazz lately myself -- interesting that you mention that! I've always enjoyed jazz (was even in jazz band in high school), but when I started questioning what violent music was "doing" to me emotionally/mentally (now what I think of as 'what seeds am I watering' with it, thanks to Shenshi's post) I started to delve deeper into other genres. Jazz really surprised me --- so many subgenres!

How do these movies and music make you feel? Will it lead to bad thoughts and actions or not?

Hi Shoki,

Honestly, that is largely what it all boils down to. More than bad action in my case, I'm interested in the bad thought (bad emotion) consideration. Some things I feel like I enjoy, but realize that in truth they don't exactly leave me in a good place, if that makes sense. My interests are naturally shifting some, and I think I'm going to nurture that shift. I'm coming to it being something to be mindful of, but not overthink (which I'm known to do!).

Thank you so much! All so very helpful.

Gassho,

Ryan
Sat Today

[Kyōsen]

I thought something I experienced recently might be a helpful contribution to this discussion.

I've been a fan of the horror genre for as long as I can remember. The other day I decided to finally watch the film Cargo on Netflix; I'm not really a fan of the zombie genre but I was willing to give it a go since it stars Martin Freeman and I'm a fan of his performances. Anyway, onto the point, as expected in any horror film and (especially) zombie film there is at least one main character who dies. This character's death hit me hard, harder than I was expecting, harder than films that include this trope have in the past. I don't think there was anything especially significant about its presentation or implication in the story that hasn't been done in other films I've seen but, for some reason, it was left disturbed.

I am certain it's me who has changed over the years and I welcome it. Not only because change is change and it's going to happen whether or not I want it to, but also I welcome not feeling numb to this kind of thing even if it's fiction.

Gassho
Kyōsen
Sat|LAH

[Snark]

I don’t know how old you are but definitely when I was younger I was a frustrated, angry, depressed person (not violent though). I fed that energy by listening to violent, angry and depressing music. It is like a spiral. One feeding the other.

The constant news cycle of negativity can also feed that energy.

Tairin
Sat today and lah

As Tairin says, the 24/7 news cycle feeds itself. without getting too political, the news is advertising, to subvert people's will, to prick their neuroses, to get them to 'opt in'. wherever possible severing ties with the bs is advisable and the space it leaves can be filled by anything you wish to fill it with.

Gassho,

dan.

[Jundo]

As Tairin says, the 24/7 news cycle feeds itself. without getting too political, the news is advertising, to subvert people's will, to prick their neuroses, to get them to 'opt in'. wherever possible severing ties with the bs is advisable and the space it leaves can be filled by anything you wish to fill it with.

Gassho,

dan.

I might say, speaking personally, that I do believe in staying informed however, and being a well informed citizen. What the dictators actually want is for the citizens to "tune out," and to not be paying attention. Don't overdo on the news, be discerning and "see thru" the BS, but neither look away.

Most of the Zen teachers I have known (not all) have kept up with current events and the state of the world. We know that this world is something like a dream, but it is the dreamers' duty to keep informed and participate in the dream so that the dream dictators don't take over, and the corrupt don't win.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Jishin]

Hi,

Aggression, the money trail and sex explains close to 100 % of media content and life in general.

Understanding humans is important as we are humans and to turn away from understanding humans is an act of aggression in itself.

To effect change in this imperfect world you have to get your hands dirty; visit brothels and participate in objectionable behavior, hold a rifle to effect peace, be a reporter spinning the news and a politician telling lies; an arm chair Buddhist does little to effect change other than criticize the world as it is.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[gaurdianaq]

I think in regards to right thought a lot of it comes down to intention, going with the music example... are you listening to the song because of the violent lyrics? Like do you relate to them, or are you listening because you enjoy the music itself? There are probably a bunch of songs that I don't agree with the lyrics, but the melody is catchy and it helps to pump me up (such as for a workout, where an aggressive energy can be useful).

That being said I know everyone processes things differently, I personally find it fairly easy to tune out the meaning of lyrics if I don't think they're good... Within reason, I suppose if it was something extreme and I felt the musicians were trying way too hard to make it sound extreme I might be turned off for it and then just not want to listen to it. (Hence why I always skip that one part in Disturbeds song Down with the Sickness)

Evan

[Bokugan]

Understanding humans is important as we are humans and to turn away from understanding humans is an act of aggression in itself.

True, turning away from exposure that will bring an understanding would be like burying our head in the sand to ignore suffering rather than work to alleviate it. Enacting change to make things better requires real experience that leads to understanding. Thank you for sharing that.

Gassho,

Ryan
Sat Today

[Bokugan]

I think in regards to right thought a lot of it comes down to intention, going with the music example... are you listening to the song because of the violent lyrics? Like do you relate to them, or are you listening because you enjoy the music itself? There are probably a bunch of songs that I don't agree with the lyrics, but the melody is catchy and it helps to pump me up (such as for a workout, where an aggressive energy can be useful).

That being said I know everyone processes things differently, I personally find it fairly easy to tune out the meaning of lyrics if I don't think they're good... Within reason, I suppose if it was something extreme and I felt the musicians were trying way too hard to make it sound extreme I might be turned off for it and then just not want to listen to it. (Hence why I always skip that one part in Disturbeds song Down with the Sickness)

Evan

For my media of concern, I was partaking out of habit and new sensitivities brought me to realize the state of mind it was leaving me in. After going through this helpful discussion, I think my Right Thought concern is with how it (let's say violent films and certain music specifically here) leaves me feeling afterwards. I'm losing my taste for intensely violent/depressing media, which I feel is happening because I am more in tune with how it affects me mentally (not a violent person, more a thought pattern/negative view sort of thing) and that could affect right thought.

Gassho,

Ryan
Sat Today

[gaurdianaq]

For my media of concern, I was partaking out of habit and new sensitivities brought me to realize the state of mind it was leaving me in. After going through this helpful discussion, I think my Right Thought concern is with how it (let's say violent films and certain music specifically here) leaves me feeling afterwards. I'm losing my taste for intensely violent/depressing media, which I feel is happening because I am more in tune with how it affects me mentally (not a violent person, more a thought pattern/negative view sort of thing) and that could affect right thought.

Gassho,

Ryan
Sat Today

Sounds like you've found your answer then.

Evan

[Bokugan]

Sounds like you've found your answer then.

Evan

I did, thank you so much for sharing as well Evan! This whole thread was very helpful to me. I appreciate people taking the time to share their personal experiences and opinions.

Gassho,

Ryan S
Sat Today

[Tairin]

I don’t think anyone posted a link to article in this thread

https://www.lionsroar.com/food-for-thought/

I think this teaching is apropos to the topic at hand.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Bokugan]

Tairin,

I finally took a moment to read this article and it was so spot on for what prompted my question.

“When you eat your breakfast, are you eating your breakfast, or are you eating your projects or the morning radio show?” Thich Nhat Hanh would ask.

Every morning I browse the news while eating breakfast, and often during lunch... so this too is something I need to take to heart. Like the author says, aim for informed not overwhelmed.

Gassho,

Ryan
Sat Today

[Tairin]

Tairin,

I finally took a moment to read this article and it was so spot on for what prompted my question.



Every morning I browse the news while eating breakfast, and often during lunch... so this too is something I need to take to heart. Like the author says, aim for informed not overwhelmed.

Gassho,

Ryan
Sat Today

Yes it is a very good perspective and one I try to take to heart. I am glad to hear you found it useful.


Tairin
Sat today and lah