Violent Media and Right Thought

[Bokugan]

I was able to find a wonderful thread started by Kyonin here: Violence in Entertainment

It was very helpful, but I have a sort of followup question that aligns with developing more sensitivity to violent media. This might be super obvious and is clearly subjective (ie what is considered violent media might vary from person to person). Even so, I would be interested in opinions if anyone has the time and feels inclined to share

My question(s): In thinking on the eightfold path, specifically Right Thought, would consuming violent media be advised against? Put another way, as a Buddhist, is violent media something that should be abstained from?

For me, I am specifically thinking on violent music and film. Like Kyonin mentions in the thread he started, after around 6-7 months of practice I too find that there are certain media preferences, especially music, that are shifting for me. Much of the violent music I once listened to on a regular basis just isn't appealing anymore. I'm also noticing that types of shows and films I once watched are a struggle at times when they have gratuitous violence.

But still, my interest hasn't completely dropped off on these things. I don't want to write a book here, but one strong example is music. I still listen to some stuff that elicits an aggressive emotion/energy. Such material almost always contains violent lyrics and imagery (black metal and certain industrial artists for example). I enjoy it during a workout, while driving, or making art... but I feel like the aggressive/negative feelings I get from listening to it works against the ideal of Right Thought.

Maybe as time goes my interest in such things will continue to wane. I guess the main reason I am curious is that I wonder if keeping such media in my life (which is all part of the practice -- not just zen on the zafu, but in all things; all of life) is counterproductive to the practice.

Thank you for reading!

Gassho,

Ryan S
Sat Today

[Tairin]

Anger breeds anger. Violence breeds violence. There is already enough of it in the world. I don’t need to expose myself to movies, music, news etc that are just going to make me feel anxious and angry. That doesn’t mean I will bury my head in the sand either. Middle way.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Bokugan]

Anger breeds anger. Violence breeds violence. There is already enough of it in the world. I don’t need to expose myself to movies, music, news etc that are just going to make me feel anxious and angry. That doesn’t mean I will bury my head in the sand either. Middle way.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

Thank you Tairin.

Your line of thought feels right. I never realized what emotions came with the energy I would feel from such music as starkly as I do now. Granted, I am not a violent person whatsoever -- but the "feel" is there with the rise the music gives, if that makes sense.

That is what brought this question to mind a few weeks ago. It definitely has me asking "what am I doing to myself by consuming such things?"

I appreciate your response

Gassho

Ryan
Sat Today

[Tairin]

I don’t know how old you are but definitely when I was younger I was a frustrated, angry, depressed person (not violent though). I fed that energy by listening to violent, angry and depressing music. It is like a spiral. One feeding the other.

The constant news cycle of negativity can also feed that energy. I find that I need to take relatively frequent breaks from current events.

This practice has helped immensely. Reciting Metta helps me. Jundo’s insistence on putting controversial figures such as a certain president on the altar and asking us to bow helps me.

I can’t recall exactly the quote but some text we read each year for the Precepts hits on this directly. Just like we are what we eat. We can become what we consume in terms of thoughts and ideas.


Tairin
Sat today and lah

[Bokugan]

I'm late 30s, but it took me a very long time to grow and deal with some issues. It sounds like we have a similar past with music. I was much the same, and even most all of my personal art and music from that period reflect a lot of angst and despression. As a child of the 90s, angsty, violent, and depressing music was plentiful. It certainly filled a void for me. I carried it a long time, and I now think part of the continued appeal for me is an old, comfortable familiarity. Like a bad habit? I didn't think about it like that until now.

Again, I deeply appreciate your insight! Thank you.

Gassho

Ryan S
Sat Today

[Amelia]

If something doesn't make me feel good, then I try to avoid it. For example, I love Tarantino movies, but I seem to have trouble with war movies. Then again, I have watched Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket dozens of times. For a lot of people, it is different. Like how some people can take a drink and others cannot touch alcohol because they lose control. If I notice that something I indulge in results in negative feelings or behavior, that is what I avoid.

Gassho
Sat today, lah

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[Bokugan]

If I notice that something I indulge in results in negative feelings or behavior, that is what I avoid.

I dig that, and maybe that is what I am trying to ultimately figure out. What kind of feeling does it leave me with?

It can feel invigorating, but definitely not always positive. There is plenty of alternative media that is equally invigorating/exciting/etc. sans the negative feelings. Being aware of the effects media has on me and letting that be a guide would be ideal. Such things are so long engrained in my life that it seems daunting... but honestly, realizing it is something to work on is a good start.

Thank you

Gassho
Ryan
Sat Today

[Seikan]

This is a very timely thread as I was just discussing something similar with my wife the other day. I have a large collection of films that I never watch anymore, and I was just realizing the other day how so many of them contain what I would now classify as gratuitous violence—and not necessarily physical violence, but some have what I would call verbal or emotional violence.

That said, I will still watch certain films (e.g., Saving Private Ryan) that incorporate violence as a critical part of the story. I see these films as more educational and as providing strong evidence for the pitfalls of violence. I'm not at all entertained by the violence, in fact I'm disgusted by it, but it serves as a valuable reminder of the darker side of our humanity. I imagine that different media will resonate with each of us in a similar manner, but often for different reasons.

On a similar note, I tend to avoid the TV news as they always focus on the violence and negativity of the day ("if it bleeds, it leads"). I don't bury my head in the sand when it comes to the news of the day, I just prefer a more balanced view gleaned from more thorough news agencies.

Thank you Ryan for starting this discussion. I'm looking forward to the thoughts of others here as well.

Gassho,
Rob

SatToday


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[Jundo]

Ryan,

When I do see extremely violent media these days (it is so hard to avoid), I take it as a glimpse into "samsara," a lesson in the diseases of anger and violence that the Buddha's medicine is meant to treat. In the old days, 150 years ago in our grand-grand parents' times, 800 years ago in Dogen's time, people may have lived and witnessed much more actual violence in daily life that most westerners do now (it is true, and we are actually much more sheltered now).

https://ourworldindata.org/ethnographic-and-archaeological-evidence-on-violent-deaths

"Game of Thrones" was not just a TV show, but real life for our ancestors (well, perhaps without the zombies and actual dragons ).

So, I take it as "study," much as some Buddhist meditators in Asia head to graveyards to sit with death. It is not something to do each day perhaps, but when death and violence are seen ... witness and learn.

However, it is also fine to turn away from the excess violence that the media tries to force on us. I just don't find watching others suffer to be entertaining. Much of it is my Buddhist practice, and some is perhaps just getting older (movie and musical tastes tend to mellow a bit, and I am no longer the angry 16 year old with hormones raging.) If someone does need to watch violence, I would much rather have people do so as an outlet for their inner animals rather than to do so on the city streets. Of course, it would be a nicer world if we could do away with both fictional and non-fictional violence in our society.

In a monastery, they would close the doors to the outside world, and live in non-violence within their walls. It is fine to do so too with media. However, neither shut your eyes to the outside world. If you see violence in media or (hopefully not) in flesh and blood life, witness and learn. It is samsara. Perhaps do what you can as one citizen and consumer to lessen violence in our media and in life. After all, the game, movie and TV producers are just selling the drugs that people want to buy and tune in to watch.

Gassho, J

STLah

[Bokugan]

That said, I will still watch certain films (e.g., Saving Private Ryan) that incorporate violence as a critical part of the story. I see these films as more educational and as providing strong evidence for the pitfalls of violence. I'm not at all entertained by the violence, in fact I'm disgusted by it, but it serves as a valuable reminder of the darker side of our humanity. I imagine that different media will resonate with each of us in a similar manner, but often for different reasons.

Rob - thank you for sharing this! Excellent point. This leads in to the advice Jundo shared quite well.

Ryan,

When I do see extremely violent media these days (it is so hard to avoid), I take it as a glimpse into "samsara," a lesson in the diseases of anger and violence that the Buddha's medicine is meant to treat. In the old days, 150 years ago in our grand-grand parents' times, 800 years ago in Dogen's time, people may have lived and witnessed much more actual violence in daily life that most westerners do now (it is true, and we are actually much more sheltered now).

https://ourworldindata.org/ethnographic-and-archaeological-evidence-on-violent-deaths

"Game of Thrones" was not just a TV show, but real life for our ancestors (well, perhaps without the zombies and actual dragons ).

So, I take it as "study," much as some Buddhist meditators in Asia head to graveyards to sit with death. It is not something to do each day perhaps, but when death and violence are seen ... witness and learn.

However, it is also fine to turn away from the excess violence that the media tries to force on us. I just don't find watching others suffer to be entertaining. Much of it is my Buddhist practice, and some is perhaps just getting older (movie and musical tastes tend to mellow a bit, and I am no longer the angry 16 year old with hormones raging.) If someone does need to watch violence, I would much rather have people do so as an outlet for their inner animals rather than to do so on the city streets. Of course, it would be a nicer world if we could do away with both fictional and non-fictional violence in our society.

In a monastery, they would close the doors to the outside world, and live in non-violence within their walls. It is fine to do so too with media. However, neither shut your eyes to the outside world. If you see violence in media or (hopefully not) in flesh and blood life, witness and learn. It is samsara. Perhaps do what you can as one citizen and consumer to lessen violence in our media and in life. After all, the game, movie and TV producers are just selling the drugs that people want to buy and tune in to watch.

Gassho, J

STLah

Jundo,

That gave me better perspective on this. Thank you!

Like Rob's example of disliking violence but appreciating lessons it presents in films like Saving Private Ryan, I see how it could be a deep learning experience to glimpse samsara as you say. I hadn't fully considered that aspect, at least not looking at seeing violence as a learning experience (as unfortunate as it is). And you are right, our lives are so different and sheltered compared to 150 (let alone 800!) years ago. Witnessing violence is certainly not new.

What this takes me to is not fully turning away from violence in media (film, music, news, etc.), but carefully evaluating media that seems gratuitously violent for violence's sake (or otherwise one-dimensionally negative) and gauging what value it brings and what effect it has on me. At that point it is very personal and totally a judgement call.

I surrounded myself with it for many years and I feel it is time to sort of shed some of it away, if that makes sense.

Also, working to lessen violence is good advice. I like the idea of being active.

This has all been so helpful. I appreciate everyone taking time to share some thoughts.

Gassho,

Ryan S
Sat Today

[Shinshi]

I have always been fond of the gardening analogy of life. Essentially you reap what you sow.

Thich Nhat Hanh has some excellent writing on this which I really like. To kind of paraphrase, you have a store consciousness that contains seeds of emotions. Those seeds can grow into emotional states like happiness or anger. Some people may have more of one kind of seed than another or some with seeds that grow more easily. But we are the gardener of our emotional garden. And we can choose what we water and what we encourage to grow. What we choose to nurture will impact what grows in our garden. Violence nurtures/water seeds of violence. Loving kindness nurtures seeds of loving kindness.

And if we aren't paying attention all kinds of seeds can be watered by what we encounter during our lives. We may not even be paying attention as it happens. In thinking about this yesterday I realized that I have been exposing myself to a lot of anger and aggression via the media. Much of it may be justified but I realized that it is still effecting my emotional state at some level and I either need to be exposed to less of it, or make sure it is balanced by other experiences.

So I would say try to be mindful tending your garden. Try to watch how what you experience impacts how your garden is growing.

Gassho,

Shinshi

[Bokugan]

So I would say try to be mindful tending your garden. Try to watch how what you experience impacts how your garden is growing.

That is a very good analogy! Thank you, Shinshi.

I may track down the book containing the writing you paraphrased from Thich Nhat Han. Do you remember if it was from Taming the Tiger Within? I did a little digging and I think that might be the one.

Gassho

Ryan
Sat Today

[Bokucho]

This is a very timely thread as I was just discussing something similar with my wife the other day. I have a large collection of films that I never watch anymore, and I was just realizing the other day how so many of them contain what I would now classify as gratuitous violence—and not necessarily physical violence, but some have what I would call verbal or emotional violence.

That said, I will still watch certain films (e.g., Saving Private Ryan) that incorporate violence as a critical part of the story. I see these films as more educational and as providing strong evidence for the pitfalls of violence. I'm not at all entertained by the violence, in fact I'm disgusted by it, but it serves as a valuable reminder of the darker side of our humanity. I imagine that different media will resonate with each of us in a similar manner, but often for different reasons.

This is exactly how I feel about it as well. Humans have a long history of violence and sometimes it is a good reminder just what humans are capable of if they remain ignorant or separate from the world. I personally read a lot of fantasy books, and some contain some pretty graphic violence (A Song of Ice and Fire comes to mind). I often think about how close we are evolutionary to the violent ancestors of the past. We've all still got some level of inherent violence in our DNA, and just like everything else, it's a part of this realm of suffering. I don't enjoy the glorification or excessive nature of violence, but it's a reality that many have lived through and it's part of who we are as a species. Sometimes it can be a good reminder (for me at least) that everyone has some capability to do violence, even if it's verbal or mental, it's still violence because that's part of the cost of admission for being a human. With a reminder every now and again it helps keep things in perspective.

Gassho,

Joshua
SatToday/LaH

[Shinshi]

That is a very good analogy! Thank you, Shinshi.

I may track down the book containing the writing you paraphrased from Thich Nhat Han. Do you remember if it was from Taming the Tiger Within? I did a little digging and I think that might be the one.

Gassho

Ryan
Sat Today

I haven't read Taming the Tiger Within. I know he writes about it in Understanding Our Mind and in Breath, Know You Are Alive!. If I get the chance later I'll look through some of my books to see if I can find any other references. I know there is stuff online as well as well as some videos.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Shinshi]

I haven't read Taming the Tiger Within. I know he writes about it in Understanding Our Mind and in Breath, Know You Are Alive!. If I get the chance later I'll look through some of my books to see if I can find any other references. I know there is stuff online as well as well as some videos.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

Quoting myself, is that like talking to yourself?

I went through the books I own and this topic is also discussed in:

Buddha Mind, Buddha Body - Walking toward enlightenment.
Transforming the Base
The Path of Emancipation
The Heart of the Buddha's teaching.

Also Peace Is Every Step is a compilation of two texts, one of which is Breath, Know You Are Alive! so that is another option.

There is also a section in Essential Writings that covers this as well. Also a compilation.

It might be covered in other texts, but it is addressed in the above.

Hope this Helps.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH