Practice without a teacher or sangha

[Jishin]

Practice without a teacher or sangha

Hi,

True life changing enlightenment (decreasing of suffering) occurs for many individuals with alcoholism in Alcoholics Anonymous. This occurs with a variety of teaching situations.

The person learns from the group of recovering alcoholics (there are no recovered alcoholics, just the practice of recovery).

The person learns from a sponsor (someone in recovery who forms a more personal relationship with the sponsee than the group and shows them how they got sober. Like a golfer who has a good golf swing and teaches a student to swing the golf club too).

The person learns from a door knob as the door knob does not inflict pain on itself and has a lot to teach by just being a door knob (this is not a joke and this teaching has been used by me and others).

The person may also go to one or 2 meetings and decide they can do it on their own and simply quit.

The person may go for years then practice sobriety on their own without problems.

The person may learn to moderate and drink without pain.

The person uses humanity in general as a teacher of recovery.

One or more of the profound life changing (decreased suffering, enlightenment) situations usually occurs as described above and several do not require but a door knob or no teacher at all.

In Zen and Buddhism, a teacher is a stepping stone and another attachment that causes suffering. A teacher is to be discarded when the costs of having a teacher outweigh the benefits. Different individuals reach this point at different times. Some never do and never become free.

The point of a teacher is to not have a teacher. Examine your teacher’s relations with her teacher.

Hanging out with friends with similar interests having a beer at a local pub is a totally different matter. One of the friends may be more charismatic and tell better stories so we listen to this friend.

In summary, a teacher is not needed for a substantial number of people from the get go. A teacher may even retard progress by fostering reliance when none is needed. In the beginning I asked Jundo “how to do this?” and he basically told me to get lost but hanging out and having a drink at the local pub (sangha) was ok.

Gassho, Jishin, __/stlah\__

[Kyonin]

Hi Sam,

There is one reason why we take refuge in the Triple Jewel. We have our founding teacher the Buddha, his teachings known as Dharma and then there's the Sangha.

I spent several years learning whatever I could about Buddhism years back when there was no Internet. I tried to grab onto whatever book or magazine I could find. There were no Buddhist sanghas anywhere and it was a lonely path. If there's no other option than to learn alone, I guess it's not so bad.

The problem is that when you practice by yourself and have no one to touch base with or someone to discuss with, you might end up holding onto your own opinions of this practice. For me the sangha is invaluable to get feed back and to see things I wasn't aware of.

Part of the sangha is the teacher, of course. At least for me, working with my teacher grounds my ideas, I get to learn from someone wiser and older than me who has understood things I am not even aware they exist.

I need my teacher to tell me what I am doing wrong and to open my mind to a wiser view of the universe.

I say this because I crossed the planet to sit with my teacher. I spent a month with him and even after a few months after the experience, I am still learning and realizing things that had escaped my attention while I was there (I was super nervous ) .

As a matter of fact I gave a talk about this when I was in Tsukuba with my teacher, Jundo Roshi

https://youtu.be/novorz3Ux6c

Gassho,

Kyonin
Sat/LAH

[Jundo]

Part of the sangha is the teacher, of course. At least for me, working with my teacher grounds my ideas, I get to learn from someone wiser and older than me who has understood things I am not even aware they exist.

I need my teacher to tell me what I am doing wrong and to open my mind to a wiser view of the universe.

We all learn from each other (I really do prefer "friend along the way" to "teacher"), so we are all mutually supporting and learning friends in a Sangha. We learn from each other, so we all need to correct each other sometimes. We are all "recovering ignorant sentient beings" at the BA (Buddhas Anonymous)

However, as with sailing or AA or Karate, some voices have experience to pass on. I think that there are aspects of Zen Practice which are like AA, but others which are more like Karate or piano. AA (I speak as an outsider with no experience there) is rather free form about living life free of the bottle. Karate and piano have particular knowledge and forms to pass on. Many westerners neglect the latter part, and the result is often not so good. They often end up do strange things, holding unusual beliefs about Zen practice and kind of half assed. Believe me, i encounter this each day (I am active on some Facebook Zen groups which I can only describe as "say and do whatever the hell you please" spiritual chaos and mess.)

The best comparison may be sailing, which is a combination of real skills and knowledge to be passed on from experienced hands, but then one must get on to open ocean oneself.

On this ship, Captain Jundo tries to keep things not too tight and not just "by the rule book," but hand on the rudder, good direction, neat ropes and avoid the rocks and shoals.

Gassho, J

stlah