A religion of games

[Zenmei]

This article pointed to something I had always missed about meditation before I started sitting shikantaza. Sitting isn't just a thing you do with your mind, it's a complete integration of mind and body. I was always frustrated by zazen instructions that spent paragraphs talking about proper posture, with almost no instruction on what to do with your mind. It took me a while to realize that was the whole point, and the body is just as much a part of it as the mind is.
This was the first time I'd read one of these articles about meditation software that acknowledged that.

Gassho, Zenmei #sat

[Jundo]

This is worth thinking about some more, it might make an important difference.

And "thinking-non-thinking" about too, which might make an important sameness.

This article pointed to something I had always missed about meditation before I started sitting shikantaza. Sitting isn't just a thing you do with your mind, it's a complete integration of mind and body.

Shikantaza is body-mind, not two. Sometimes we sit with the body, sometimes we move the body in Samu work, cleaning, Oryoki, hiking in the mountains, walking to the bathroom, walking to a meeting at the office, changing a baby diaper ... all same mind. All can be Shikantaza with body still or body moving. Thus, we sit each day to realize this, then get up from the cushion and get moving to realize this.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Ryudo]

And "thinking-non-thinking" about too, which might make an important sameness.

Thank you Jundo,
I am afraid this goes a bit beond my understanding. I think I can understand "thinking-non-thinking" but you lost me in "thinking-non-thinking" about something... For me "thinking-non-thinking" makes the "thinking" an undependent entity without a subject thus without the "about".
So I guess it is too much thinking all together and it comes down to the same: I better stop thinking about this.

Gassho
Marcus
SatToday

[Jundo]

Thank you Jundo,
I am afraid this goes a bit beond my understanding. I think I can understand "thinking-non-thinking" but you lost me in "thinking-non-thinking" about something... For me "thinking-non-thinking" makes the "thinking" an undependent entity without a subject thus without the "about".
So I guess it is too much thinking all together and it comes down to the same: I better stop thinking about this.

Gassho
Marcus
SatToday

Oh, very easy. Thinking is a subject thinking about an object, this and that, yesterday and today, win and lose, good and bad, birth and death, tables and chairs, etc. etc.

In nothinking, there is no subject in contrast to object, no this nor that, yesterday, today, now and all the rest. Simple grand flowing wholeness.

If in thinking-non-thinking, one perfumes the other ... is the other, not two ... then thinking is, yet is not as it was before. For example, there is me and you, win and lose, birth and death ... yet not ... then what. The ordinary proves to have been most fabulous all along.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Tairin]

I was thinking about this some more.

If I understand correctly, we are already living in a virtual/augmented reality made up of our stories and delusions. We tell ourselves stories that obscures reality like the clouds either partially or fully obscure the clear blue sky. A Buddha may see the clouds but understands them as clouds while still seeing the clear blue sky.

I am not confident that I want to further obscure reality with technology and I sure don't trust the Apples, Googles, and Samsungs of the world to not take advantage of AR/VR for their commercial gain while promising me a more spiritual experience.

Or maybe I am just turning into a grumpy old Luddite in my old age.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

[Jishin]

I was thinking about this some more.

If I understand correctly, we are already living in a virtual/augmented reality made up of our stories and delusions. We tell ourselves stories that obscures reality like the clouds either partially or fully obscure the clear blue sky. A Buddha may see the clouds but understands them as clouds while still seeing the clear blue sky.

I am not confident that I want to further obscure reality with technology and I sure don't trust the Apples, Googles, and Samsungs of the world to not take advantage of AR/VR for their commercial gain while promising me a more spiritual experience.

Or maybe I am just turning into a grumpy old Luddite in my old age.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

Living in a virtual reality made up of stories and delusions is reality itself. Reality can not be obscured by technology. Technology is reality itself. You can not turn into a grumpy old Luddite in your old age. You are grumpy old Luddite in your old age. You can not turn into a Buddha by sitting or make a mirror by shinning a brick. You are Buddha already!

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Tairin]

From our reading "Living By Vow - Continuous Circle of Offering: The Meal Chants"

Within delusion there is suchness as delusion. The fact that we are deluded is reality. When we see delusion as delusion, delusion is part of reality and there is nothing to be eliminated, nothing to be negated. We should accept everything as the Buddha's life

Gassho
Warren
Sat today & LAH

[Ryudo]

Oh, very easy. Thinking is a subject thinking about an object, this and that, yesterday and today, win and lose, good and bad, birth and death, tables and chairs, etc. etc.

In nothinking, there is no subject in contrast to object, no this nor that, yesterday, today, now and all the rest. Simple grand flowing wholeness.

If in thinking-non-thinking, one perfumes the other ... is the other, not two ... then thinking is, yet is not as it was before. For example, there is me and you, win and lose, birth and death ... yet not ... then what. The ordinary proves to have been most fabulous all along.

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

Thank you jundo,
I will try my best.

Gassho
Marcus SatToday/LAH

[JimH]

Then again....isn't *all* "reality" at least somewhat virtual?

Gassho--

--JimH (SatToday!)

[Jundo]

Then again....isn't *all* "reality" at least somewhat virtual?

Gassho--

--JimH (SatToday!)

Oh, not just "somewhat" ...

It is a basic premise of traditional Buddhism that our perception of reality is the product of data, (in modern terms) converted to electro-chemical energy, then interpreted in the brain as some images that may or may not generally reflect what is actually "out there." For example, you may feel that you see a tree "out there", and photons of light from the tree enter the eyes, are turned into electo-chemical signals which are recreated as images of a "tree" somewhere inside the brain, which "tree" we further define with labels and categories such as "pine, tall, green, beautiful" etc. We share this dream of "tree" with fellow human beings. There is likely something "out there" (and you "in here" to see it), but not really in the "beautiful green pine" way that the brain imposes.

By the way, last night I was introduced by my nephew to "oculus rift", the virtual reality system in which one puts on a pair of gloves and goggles and enters various worlds. Not what I was expecting, truly astounding. My nephew designs for the program, and he believes it is a game changer. I must agree. I experienced reactions, physical and psychological, as if I were actually in such environments. Not just some "3D" experience. I feel like the first time somebody showed me a PC or the internet! A sample (in 2D, imagine if in total surround with gloves that make your own body function as your body in the environment, e.g., the hands seen in various games are actually felt and seen as one's own hands in the correct location on your body) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nS6b9jEXzU

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Roland]

Yes Jundo, I'm an avid user of Oculus Rift and maybe one day I'll learn to do something creative with it - it was exactly to that kind of experience I was referring to. Not to somehow replace our beloved sitting, but still as a way to augment our intellect, compassion, empathy...

Gassho,

Roland
#SatToday

[JimH]

I've long been a fan of virtual reality, and I've been an even bigger fan of immersive games. I have played MMOs for decades, and have always sought out the most immersive experiences possible. I'm not a typical "hack and slasher", but rather more of an explorer. I get involved with games to fully see the world, and to experience "life" through a different set of eyes.

The building where I work has an office on the first floor where people can try out Virtual Reality goggles. It is very interesting to walk by and see people moving around and performing actions while wearing the VR goggles....and simultaneously watch what they are doing on a big screen behind them (so you see what they see). It's incredible. It's almost like the idea of the Star Trek Holodeck is only a couple of years away.

In college, I took a lot of philosophy classes, mainly around metaphysics. I loved the discussions about reality and experience. It has never ceased to fascinate me how we can all live in the same world, and yet have completely different realities. For example, my grandfather passed away years ago after suffering from dementia. His "reality" was a timeframe many years in the past. He tried every day to find his keys for a car he hadn't owned for decades, to try to get to a job he had retired from just as far back. He saw everyone around him as someone different (saw me as my dad when he was a boy, etc.). Still boggles my mind.

As games and simulations advance, the lines that determine what is "real" get more and more blurry!

Gassho--

--Jim (SatToday....really AND virtually!)

[Kyotai]

Facinating stuff. Perhaps one day the technology will be used at treeleaf and begin to blur the vast geography between us. The online and the real in person experience may truly become one.

But... sitting with Joyo, Shingen and Marc the other night over live video...pretty cool too.

Gassho, Kyotai
ST LAH

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

[Amelia]

I wanna play "Riven" on VR. Anybody else get into the Myst series? I know that Cyan made a new game for VR and I think it is the perfect platform for their style!

Gassho, sat today, lah