Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[Jundo]

I finished watching this series a little while ago and am still finding things to reflect on. Thank you Jundo for such clear and thoughtful instructions. I especially found the "not grabbing the thoughts" (number 7) and "drifting clouds" (number 9) very helpful, as well as the idea of different "channels" (that are still all part of the same whole). I've also been thinking about the idea of awareness from the hara. I wrote this as a somewhat clumsy way to try to capture a bit of where my understanding is at so far:

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Sorry for running long!

Gassho,
Gooey

sat/LAH

Hi Gooey,

Some folks place the attention on the Hara during Zazen, or just follow the breath, or just feel the whole body sitting. I am more of an "open awareness" fellow, who just places the attention kind of into open space, no particular place at all. All are fine. I think that, based on old ideas of Chinese medicine, some folks emphasize the Hara too much, as an energy center of the body. I don't know about that, and we tend not to emphasize the Hara too much around our Sangha.

Gassho, Jundo

stlah

[Gooey]

Thank you Jundo, this makes sense to me. Placing awareness on the hara has been a useful "training wheels" process for me in my very beginning stages (and has felt natural from my singing and woodwind training). I really appreciate how much Treeleaf is focused on open awareness and that is definitely a "goalless goal" for me.

Gassho,
Gooey

sat/LAH

[Jundo]

Thank you Jundo, this makes sense to me. Placing awareness on the hara has been a useful "training wheels" process for me in my very beginning stages (and has felt natural from my singing and woodwind training). I really appreciate how much Treeleaf is focused on open awareness and that is definitely a "goalless goal" for me.

Gassho,
Gooey

sat/LAH

Hi Gooey,

Oh, my mother was a professional Jazz singer with opera training, so I also believe in the value of nice, deep breathing "from the diaphragm." In Zazen, we just breathe naturally, nothing forced, breathing at our own natural pace, but do appreciate breaths which open the diaphragm.

The Hara is near the body's center of gravity, in my understanding from martial artists, so is important to have in mind in movement.

But that is very different from saying that the Hara is actually the center of some mysterious "ki" energy, or that we actually breathe from down there (a condition which, if actually happening, would be grounds to call an ambulance!) My wife, a 5th Dan in Aikido, seems to agree with me on the above.

Gassho, J

stlah

[Steve Rossiter]

Gassho Jundo, I have a question for yourself, or anyone else that may have a solution. I have trouble keeping my eyes 3/4 shut, due to dry-eye. This poses a distraction.
Does anyone have experience with this, and what was your solution?

Sat Today
Gassho, Steve

[Houzan]

Gassho Jundo, I have a question for yourself, or anyone else that may have a solution. I have trouble keeping my eyes 3/4 shut, due to dry-eye. This poses a distraction.
Does anyone have experience with this, and what was your solution?

Sat Today
Gassho, Steve

I am sure Jundo or someone else will come along and give some proper guidance.
Meanwhile, maybe this is a helpful thread:

Zazen with closed eyes?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=15740&share_tid=18152&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Etreeleaf%2Eorg%2Fforums%2Fshowthread%2Ephp%3Ft%3D18152&share_type=t&link_source=app

Gassho, Michael
Satlah

[Jundo]

Gassho Jundo, I have a question for yourself, or anyone else that may have a solution. I have trouble keeping my eyes 3/4 shut, due to dry-eye. This poses a distraction.
Does anyone have experience with this, and what was your solution?

Sat Today
Gassho, Steve

Hi Steve,

Well, blink normally, and just keep your eyes ordinary, just about half open. No need to stay fixed on one spot either.

I sometimes compare it to driving a country road ...

Drivin' Dogen - Understanding "Open Spacious Awareness"

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16743-Drivin-Dogen-Understanding-Open-Spacious-Awareness

We are not doing anything particularly strained with the eyes. Let me know if that helps.

Gassho, Jundo

stlah

[Steve Rossiter]

Micheal, thank you. This was very helpful. Gassho.

[Steve Rossiter]

Thank you Jundo, for the help. Gassho.

[Jundo]

Thank you Jundo, for the help. Gassho.

It is good news. He has been in physical pain for a very long time.

Gassho, J

stlah

[Shinkon]

Started watching the introductory videos, I find it always good to review the basics. Shikantaza drives my practice and keeps me centered. Even with all my years of practice, I find that I still allow the thought hammer to strike, not as often as when I first started. Every once in awhile, I allow myself to follow a thought. Then, BANG - Ow!
Also, I do three priming breaths at the beginning of my zazen. It allows my breath to settle gradually into the hara. I was first introduced to that technique by Sojun Mel Weitsman, and happy to be reminded by Jundo.
Gassho,
Joe

[Aldora74]

Beginner talk #3 on sitting posture, etc., was well done, Jundo. I’ve been sitting for years but keeping open to beginner’s mind and just listening seems to always result in learning something new or remembering something that was forgotten or previously disregarded. Grateful for your talk and for Treeleaf Zendo!

Gassho,
Rory

sat today

[nima]

Hello everyone, Today is my first day of sitting in Treeleaf Sangha. I have a problem. I breathe naturally with my mouth (because of the problem in the nose from childhood). Of course I can push myself to breathe with nose; but it is not my natural way. May I continue breathing with mouth?

Gassho,
Nima

Sat Today

[Bion]

Hello everyone, Today is my first day of sitting in Treeleaf Sangha. I have a problem. I breathe naturally with my mouth (because of the problem in the nose from childhood). Of course I can push myself to breathe with nose; but it is not my natural way. May I continue breathing with mouth?

Gassho,
Nima

Sat Today

I had a cold twice this year and my nose was stuffed to the point I couldn’t breathe, so I had to breathe through my mouth during zazen. I keep tongue pressed gently to the back of the upper teeth and mouth slightly open, aiming for natural breathing. I guess if breathing through the nose is impossible, I would consider mouth slightly open a necessity. This is just my opinion though, and take it as such, but I am sure Jundō will give you a more appropriate response.

Gassho
Sat and lah

[Jundo]

Hello everyone, Today is my first day of sitting in Treeleaf Sangha. I have a problem. I breathe naturally with my mouth (because of the problem in the nose from childhood). Of course I can push myself to breathe with nose; but it is not my natural way. May I continue breathing with mouth?

Gassho,
Nima

Sat Today

I'm a mouth breather too! Terrible allergies and asthma that sometimes sneaks up.

Just relax, breathe at a natural, comfortable way for you, nice from deep in the diaphragm without forcing. Nose or mouth really is a minor thing.

Gassho, Jundo

stlah

[nima]

Dear Jundo and Bion,

Thanks so much. I will continue.

Gassho,
Nima

Sat Today