Zazen for Beginners Series: THREAD for QUESTIONS, COMMENTS

[Bion]

Listened the lesson - acceptance without acceptance - and though it's interesting I am quite confused, it seems that one statement goes against the other, what am I missing?
As I understand it is that advanced person who sitting in Zazen shouldn't have been crying, because although he/she accept the situation and is in peace with it, there is still an attachment
to that particular situation, otherwise why would one cry. Although I don't like the idea of numbness of feelings, I still have problem to grasp it.

In fact, the whole Zen puzzle me, until quite recently I had idea what Zen is all about (and thought I know I shouldn't have fix myself to idea, I need to know what it is),
but that was before I start reading - zen mind beginner's mind and Shobogenzo. Now I feel I don't understand a thing I always thought that Zen is about present moment, but not sure about it now.
I had also a hard time explaining to family what is Zen, so I said it's unexplainable, that with each attempt to grasp it you're losing it, and it's basically about one's practice and experience.
How would you explain to stranger what is Zen about?

Erinis
Sat today
Gassho

Hi!
I’ll chirp in for a moment because I am someone that does quite a bit of crying and I do it out of compassion and empathy, not out of desperation or deep suffering.

It saddens me to see someone go through rough times, especially if they have no tools to navigate them like we do. A bodhisattva is continuously ready to partake in anyone’s suffering though we can’t always ease it, so sometimes all we can do is cry with our fellow humans. Being sad is normal, and then wiping off the tears and moving on with the acceptance that suffering exists and will smack all of us on the head at some point is also normal.

A bodhisattva does not fully drop all attachments, but willingly holds on to them for the benefit of all beings, all the while knowing attachments could be dropped at any moment ( which we do as we sit in zazen). It is quite a conundrum, I guess. Anyway, I am being too wordy, my apologies.

[emoji1374] Sat Today

[Erinis]

Thank you all for sharing , I think I am beginning to understand, although Zen itself is indescribable, because experience through practice is something, that if it's bounded and squeezed into words, the essence is lost.
As I understand it, Zen is about seeing with both eyes open, as it is, an ordinary practice of sitting Zazen in nature of Buddha. Perhaps I am just making mistake trying to frame it, and don't know if
I understand it properly, correct me please if I am wrong, or maybe asking for correction is also false Zen, trying to get template to form same understanding of it.

Erinis
Gassho,

Sat Today

[Tokan]

Thank you all for sharing , I think I am beginning to understand, although Zen itself is indescribable, because experience through practice is something, that if it's bounded and squeezed into words, the essence is lost.
As I understand it, Zen is about seeing with both eyes open, as it is, an ordinary practice of sitting Zazen in nature of Buddha. Perhaps I am just making mistake trying to frame it, and don't know if
I understand it properly, correct me please if I am wrong, or maybe asking for correction is also false Zen, trying to get template to form same understanding of it.

Erinis
Gassho,

Sat Today

Hey Erinis

As you can tell from the responses, they are the same but different, and that is one of the great things about asking questions in the treeleaf forums! Everyone here has their own perspective and aspects of practice that resonate more deeply for them. We do tend to stay away from 'right' and 'wrong' if we can, all of us continue to practice and learn as we go, aiming to be more skillful. Although we try not to grasp onto words or cling to insight, even Master Dogen was a double PhD academic! So we read, learn about and consider our path more resolutely while 'off the cushion,' as zazen is a sacred practice and is sat with 'nothing to attain.' The good news is that when we sit zazen it is the universe sitting, so no distinction is either necessary or present, so no need to worry. Like how water erodes rock, we do not sit to erode the rock, just to flow like the water, until the rock dissolves.

As always, just my views, bows!



Gassho, Tokan

satlah

[Erinis]

I think I can by now understand the acceptance without acceptance,

I've been sitting in Zazen and for the first time my breath flowed naturally, in my previous sittings I made too much effort trying to not make mistake,
and then my breath was partly controlled and restless. I was sitting with effort without effort.

Today I had a new experience while practicing that while sitting I felt like being at home, it was like everything was perfect the way it is. Never felt like this before.



Gassho, Erinis
Sat Today

[Tokan]

I think I can by now understand the acceptance without acceptance,

I've been sitting in Zazen and for the first time my breath flowed naturally, in my previous sittings I made too much effort trying to not make mistake,
and then my breath was partly controlled and restless. I was sitting with effort without effort.

Today I had a new experience while practicing that while sitting I felt like being at home, it was like everything was perfect the way it is. Never felt like this before.



Gassho, Erinis
Sat Today

Gassho, Tokan

satlah

[Jundo]

I think I can by now understand the acceptance without acceptance,

I've been sitting in Zazen and for the first time my breath flowed naturally, in my previous sittings I made too much effort trying to not make mistake,
and then my breath was partly controlled and restless. I was sitting with effort without effort.

Today I had a new experience while practicing that while sitting I felt like being at home, it was like everything was perfect the way it is. Never felt like this before.



Gassho, Erinis
Sat Today

Yes, Zen sitting is what I call "non-effort," "non-trying." That does not mean that we are not sitting nicely, with a balanced, comfortable posture, letting thoughts go. Rather, we "relax" into doing so. I have tried to think of analogies, and the best I can think of is like a tightrope walker who actually has to take care and pay attention, but also totally relax to cross the wire, because stress and strain is what will be his defeat. Or the sword master who is not careless, but also must not think of life and death in combat, and actually must semi-relax and just do. Or maybe like learning to ride a bike, which is literally child's play when we finally learn to relax and just ride (but is scary, unpleasant, dangerous and off balance when we panic and are too tight as a beginning rider). Something like that. It is an influence of the Chinese and Japanese knew as Wu-Wei (Mu-i) ...

https://youtu.be/NvZi7ZV-SWI

HOWEVER, one CAUTION about Wu-Wei!! Don't then stress and strain to stay "Wu-Wei!" Nor should you try to ALWAYS be "Wu-Wei." That would be as silly as stressing and straining to achieve relaxing! Just let "Wu-Wei" happen naturally, when it happens, and so do not try to force it always. Even more, do not think that "this is bad Zazen" when not "Wu-Wei." Zazen is always good, just like sometimes it is raining, sometimes sunny, sometimes snowing or stormy ... but the sky is always present.

Also, one more analogy I recently came up with for "acceptance without acceptance." Suppose there is a life situation that is causing you natural worry or sadness, like your cat dies, the bills are not paid, you are worried about a medical test ... Our brains are hard-wired to feel some grief or fear sometimes, and (although EXCESS or constant panic and depression are not healthy, and that is different) ordinary sadness and fear is human and okay.

However, imagine that one chamber of your heart is filled with RADICAL acceptance, completion and equanimity, flowing with conditions, as we taste sometimes in Zazen. Then imagine that the other chamber is filled with that natural worry or sadness. Both beat together in the one heart, mixing and oxygenating each other, becoming a single flow of life through us. That is "accepting-non-accepting."



Gassho, J

stlah

[Erinis]

Yes, Zen sitting is what I call "non-effort," "non-trying." That does not mean that we are not sitting nicely, with a balanced, comfortable posture, letting thoughts go. Rather, we "relax" into doing so. I have tried to think of analogies, and the best I can think of is like a tightrope walker who actually has to take care and pay attention, but also totally relax to cross the wire, because stress and strain is what will be his defeat. Or the sword master who is not careless, but also must not think of life and death in combat, and actually must semi-relax and just do. Or maybe like learning to ride a bike, which is literally child's play when we finally learn to relax and just ride (but is scary, unpleasant, dangerous and off balance when we panic and are too tight as a beginning rider). Something like that. It is an influence of the Chinese and Japanese knew as Wu-Wei (Mu-i) ...

HOWEVER, one CAUTION about Wu-Wei!! Don't then stress and strain to stay "Wu-Wei!" Nor should you try to ALWAYS be "Wu-Wei." That would be as silly as stressing and straining to achieve relaxing! Just let "Wu-Wei" happen naturally, when it happens, and so do not try to force it always. Even more, do not think that "this is bad Zazen" when not "Wu-Wei." Zazen is always good, just like sometimes it is raining, sometimes sunny, sometimes snowing or stormy ... but the sky is always present.

Also, one more analogy I recently came up with for "acceptance without acceptance." Suppose there is a life situation that is causing you natural worry or sadness, like your cat dies, the bills are not paid, you are worried about a medical test ... Our brains are hard-wired to feel some grief or fear sometimes, and (although EXCESS or constant panic and depression are not healthy, and that is different) ordinary sadness and fear is human and okay.

However, imagine that one chamber of your heart is filled with RADICAL acceptance, completion and equanimity, flowing with conditions, as we taste sometimes in Zazen. Then imagine that the other chamber is filled with that natural worry or sadness. Both beat together in the one heart, mixing and oxygenating each other, becoming a single flow of life through us. That is "accepting-non-accepting."



Gassho, J

stlah

Thank you for bringing it closer to me to better understand it . Lately I've tried far too much be Wu-Wei with attempt to control Wu-wei itself, although I am not surprised, I failed, I still do struggle with being natural and let go of things, just like you mentioned on the example with bike. But I am sure I will or am learning to ride a bike.

I have decided to no longer making notes of Zazen in the terms of discriminating mind, it's just as it is, sometimes sunny sometimes rainy or snowy. But although I don't write it, I still to certain extent judge it, it's simply our human nature to analyse, or rather survive, or not? Sometimes I wonder when I say or hear anybody to utter resolute statement, have to chuckle in heart

I hope the text isn't much disorganised, monkey mind jumps from one thing to another.

Gassho, Erinis
Sat Today

[k1982]

Sit-a-Long with Jundo: Zazen for Beginners (1) / Impressions

I very much enjoyed the blasting noise from the blender as the introduction. What a wonderful and unique way to grab the viewer's attention. I've sat a long time in many places and this was the most captivating introduction I have ever seen ! Very much appreciate the reminder to keep a beginner's mind as well. Looking forward to delving into the next videos.

-Kyle

[Tai Shi]

As I rise in the morning, I use saline solution with lubricant specifically made for eyes. It's best to check with your doctor. This is a solution strongly recommended by doctor.
Gassho
sat lah

[Lannan]

I registered a while ago, and life, as it does, has gotten busy. (We're buying our first house this year.) I've been thinking more and more about what my practice will look like without in-person sangha once we move, and remembered I'd joined Treeleaf. It was definitely the time to start watching Jundo's videos, and I'm really enjoying them. I'm 4 videos in and the straightforwardness is really speaking to me!

I've been doing zazen with a local sangha and while I very much enjoy that too, there's something about the way Jundo teaches and has Treeleaf organized that really makes me think that my current sangha isn't quite reaching the neurodiverse as well as it might otherwise. There's much to the way relationships develop in a sangha, the way we're assumed to interact with the teachers, that has me baffled in a way that keeps me quiet and watchful, as if there's something I'm missing and need to pay closer attention to. But it could very well be less my neurodivergence and more my inhospitable working schedule that means I only see everyone for Sunday zazenkai.

Either way, I'm looking forward to delving further into this series of talks.

[Tokan]

I registered a while ago, and life, as it does, has gotten busy. (We're buying our first house this year.) I've been thinking more and more about what my practice will look like without in-person sangha once we move, and remembered I'd joined Treeleaf. It was definitely the time to start watching Jundo's videos, and I'm really enjoying them. I'm 4 videos in and the straightforwardness is really speaking to me!

I've been doing zazen with a local sangha and while I very much enjoy that too, there's something about the way Jundo teaches and has Treeleaf organized that really makes me think that my current sangha isn't quite reaching the neurodiverse as well as it might otherwise. There's much to the way relationships develop in a sangha, the way we're assumed to interact with the teachers, that has me baffled in a way that keeps me quiet and watchful, as if there's something I'm missing and need to pay closer attention to. But it could very well be less my neurodivergence and more my inhospitable working schedule that means I only see everyone for Sunday zazenkai.

Either way, I'm looking forward to delving further into this series of talks.

Good to have you around Lannan

Gassho, Tokan (satlah)

[Jundo]

Hi Lannan!

[Do Mi]

Dear Jundo,

I finished watching these videos a while ago and they continue to inform my zazen practice every day. The combination of supportiveness and acceptance of conditions, your steadfast teaching of shikantaza, and the metaphors, helps me so much. Especially the blender and the floating poster, which when recalled seem to click me right into a state of relaxed alertness in which some space between elephants can arise... But lots of elephants are okay too, I just keep climbing off and waving goodbye... and am so grateful to understand that this is also "good zazen."

Believing in my bones in the completeness of zazen as the embodiment of Buddha is a little more elusive. I read your teachings often enough to be reminded!

I am doing zazen every day, usually before bed although I'm trying to do more in the afternoon, and to jump in with the Treeleaf group more. I also sit with my local sangha twice a week, and am figuring out how deeply to be involved there.

So I just wanted to express my gratitude for your teachings and to Dogen and all the teachers for this incredible practice.

In gassho,

Do Mi
satlah

[k1982]

Beginner's series finished...wanted to take my time with these lessons, get a flavor for the teachings here, make sure to sit at the end of each video.

My experience is probably best conveyed through a paraphrasing of a conversation I had with my wife yesterday while doing the dishes.

Me: "Just finished up the beginner's series Jundo made."
Wife: "Any more blender videos?"
Me: "No but he made a short one from downtown, lots of people walking around him! And one from his car."
Wife: "Does he like making loud videos?"
Me: "Not necessarily. The one from his bathtub was pretty quiet."
Wife: "Oh that's ni....I'm sorry the one from his what?"

Definitely looking forward to getting involved with more of the practice here!

Gassho,
Kyle
stlah

[Gooey]

I finished watching this series a little while ago and am still finding things to reflect on. Thank you Jundo for such clear and thoughtful instructions. I especially found the "not grabbing the thoughts" (number 7) and "drifting clouds" (number 9) very helpful, as well as the idea of different "channels" (that are still all part of the same whole). I've also been thinking about the idea of awareness from the hara. I wrote this as a somewhat clumsy way to try to capture a bit of where my understanding is at so far:

Tune into hara
This channel plays clear blue sky
24/7

Sorry for running long!

Gassho,
Gooey

sat/LAH