Zen Women: Chapter 4, pages 44-55

[Onka]

Pardon my dropping in. It is this place ...



... considered actually rather "radical" as women are still denied full Ordination in much of the Theravada tradition:



Gassho, J

STLah

I had an extraordinarily strong physical and emotional reaction to reading this. It's no secret that I wish to ordain at some point as it's something that I've wanted to do since I was very young but life became life and continues to be life, but what a story.
Thank you Geika, Google Maps, and Jundo.
Gassho
Onka
STLAH

[Hoseki]

Hi folks,


I'm a little behind in the reading (about a week) but I just wanted to ask a question of everyone. Do you think that when Siddhartha Gautama left home it might not have been that big a loss to his family? I don't mean they wouldn't miss him but he was a prince so I would think (perhaps mistakenly) their material conditions would be meet and if the gender roles were very strict he might not have had much to do with the youngster. I don't know anything about parenting during that time in that location so maybe he was a great dad until he left. Any what just a thought.

Apologizes about the length.

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday/lah

[Naiko]

Hi folks,


I'm a little behind in the reading (about a week) but I just wanted to ask a question of everyone. Do you think that when Siddhartha Gautama left home it might not have been that big a loss to his family? I don't mean they wouldn't miss him but he was a prince so I would think (perhaps mistakenly) their material conditions would be meet and if the gender roles were very strict he might not have had much to do with the youngster. I don't know anything about parenting during that time in that location so maybe he was a great dad until he left. Any what just a thought.

Apologizes about the length.

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday/lah

I have wondered about this too. The accounts of Buddha’s life do say his father wanted him to be secular leader instead of a spiritual one. I don’t know enough about this history to know if leave taking for spiritual reasons was celebrated in families or despised. Or what the gender roles were at the time except that women had no real say in their choices in life. I have read in Barbara O’Brien’s Circle of the Way, that we read too much into the designation of “prince.” That these were warrior/herdsman familial clans. What was wealthy then might seem very different to us now. In “A Bigger Sky,” Pamela Weiss suggests that the Shakya clan would have spurned his wife after he left. Maddeningly, she cites no sources in her book. So many questions..
Gassho,
Krista
st

[Kokuu]

... considered actually rather "radical" as women are still denied full Ordination in much of the Theravada tradition:

As are disabled people.

In western Zen there are more obstacles to disabled people ordaining than a woman.

Fortunately that is not the case at Treeleaf

Gassho
Kokuu
-sattoday/lah-

[Hoseki]

I have wondered about this too. The accounts of Buddha’s life do say his father wanted him to be secular leader instead of a spiritual one. I don’t know enough about this history to know if leave taking for spiritual reasons was celebrated in families or despised. Or what the gender roles were at the time except that women had no real say in their choices in life. I have read in Barbara O’Brien’s Circle of the Way, that we read too much into the designation of “prince.” That these were warrior/herdsman familial clans. What was wealthy then might seem very different to us now. In “A Bigger Sky,” Pamela Weiss suggests that the Shakya clan would have spurned his wife after he left. Maddeningly, she cites no sources in her book. So many questions..
Gassho,
Krista
st

I have to say if his wife and child were shunned that would make leaving his family a pretty bad.

I would have hoped leaving ones family like that would have been at worst seen with indifference.

Gassho
Hoseki
Sattoday


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[Amelia]

Do you think that when Siddhartha Gautama left home it might not have been that big a loss to his family? I don't mean they wouldn't miss him but he was a prince so I would think (perhaps mistakenly) their material conditions would be meet and if the gender roles were very strict he might not have had much to do with the youngster. I don't know anything about parenting during that time in that location so maybe he was a great dad until he left. Any what just a thought.

I have seen the idea of his family being well off and thus taken care of proposed here and there when it comes up, but I think that in the case of the Buddha's true life situation, we will probably never really know. The entire story may not even be true.

But my opinion is that if the story is true, the act of him leaving home was considered more noble or holy an endeavor in that time than caring for his family, and that the Buddha may not have had any real role in that part of his life regardless of leaving or staying.

As are disabled people.

In western Zen there are more obstacles to disabled people ordaining than a woman.

Fortunately that is not the case at Treeleaf

It has been quite sad seeing how disabled people are treated by the "gatekeepers", but I am so grateful for us and all the other sanghas making a real attempt at rectification of this matter. I only wish it wasn't so hard to ask for in the first place, and that it hadn't taken so shamefully long.

Gassho
Sat today, lah