WHAT IS ZEN? - Thru Chap 1 - 'What's The Point?'

[Jundo]

Hi All Questioners,

Mast Dogen used to take question words like "What?" and employ them in his Shobogenzo teachings as emphatic expressions of the wonder of All Reality, more like the "WHAT!" in "THAT'S WHAT'S WHAT!" and "WHAAAATSU UP!" ..

On that note, let's begin our dance with the book "What is Zen?" by the great Norman Fischer and the also wonderful Susan Moon.

http://www.normanfischer.org/books-zen/what-is-zen

I thought we would start with the Preface and Introduction, followed by the rather short Chapter 1. I hope that is not too much. They are pretty easy reads.

Any impressions, comments, disagreements or anything are most welcome, please post here.

I might suggest a couple of topics, just to seed the discussion:

So, what is Zen, and the point of Zen practice, to you as we begin this book?

What do you consider to be the meaning in saying "no gaining mind" and "goallessness" in Shikantaza Practice?

Enjoy!

I guess, depending how the discussion is going, that I will post a new reading every week or two weeks. Let's see.

SAY WHAT!!!!

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Mp]

Wonderful Jundo ... my copy has just been waiting for this day. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Shinshi]

Thank you Jundo. I have my copy ready to go.

Gassho, Shinshi

SaT-LaH

[Shokai]

More a Q and A than a dialogue so far. Enjoy the plain language and warm teacher/student, friend/friend relation between Susan and Norman.

Being alive is a gift and a responsibility. Practice helps us see and live it like that.

"Gaining Mind" is a hindrance to gaining independence. As stated,

looking for something stands in the way of getting what you are looking for.

Norman includes the usual paradoxes found in Zen and sums it all with his last statement.

Zen practice helps us to live (our) actual lives; not (our) descriptions of it.

[Troy]

I read through the first chapter.

So, what is Zen, and the point of Zen practice, to you as we begin this book?

Zen is many things to me, but I will mention this for now. Zen is Zazen. Zen is Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. Zen is easing our own suffering and the suffering of others, living compassionately, being engaged, connecting spiritually to the oneness of life, experiencing each moment and then letting go. Zen is me and you. It is the sound of the wind through the trees and sunlight warming our skin. It is the smile on a child’s face. It is the death of a loved one. It is wholly us and wholly not us and wholly us again. Zen is everything and nothing.

What do you consider to be the meaning in saying "no gaining mind" and "goallessness" in Shikantaza Practice?

Finding by not seeking.


Sat2day

[Shokai]

Wow, why didn't I say that

gassho, shokai
stlah

[Jundo]

I read through the first chapter.

So, what is Zen, and the point of Zen practice, to you as we begin this book?

Zen is many things to me, but I will mention this for now. Zen is Zazen. Zen is Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. Zen is easing our own suffering and the suffering of others, living compassionately, being engaged, connecting spiritually to the oneness of life, experiencing each moment and then letting go. Zen is me and you. It is the sound of the wind through the trees and sunlight warming our skin. It is the smile on a child’s face. It is the death of a loved one. It is wholly us and wholly not us and wholly us again. Zen is everything and nothing.

What do you consider to be the meaning in saying "no gaining mind" and "goallessness" in Shikantaza Practice?

Finding by not seeking.


Sat2day

I think that we can burn the book now. No need to read on.

[Jakuden]

I think that we can burn the book now. No need to read on.

[emoji1][emoji120]
Deep bows, Troy!

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday/LAH


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mp]

I read through the first chapter.

So, what is Zen, and the point of Zen practice, to you as we begin this book?

Zen is many things to me, but I will mention this for now. Zen is Zazen. Zen is Buddha, Dharma, Sangha. Zen is easing our own suffering and the suffering of others, living compassionately, being engaged, connecting spiritually to the oneness of life, experiencing each moment and then letting go. Zen is me and you. It is the sound of the wind through the trees and sunlight warming our skin. It is the smile on a child’s face. It is the death of a loved one. It is wholly us and wholly not us and wholly us again. Zen is everything and nothing.

What do you consider to be the meaning in saying "no gaining mind" and "goallessness" in Shikantaza Practice?

Finding by not seeking.


Sat2day

Nicely said Troy ... glad I bought the Kindle version, all I have to do is delete it. =)

Gassho
Shingen

Sat/LAH

[Myogan]

What is Zen. In my medical practice I often prescribed meditation for people with stress. I have done this even before I became a Buddhist, so I always give them full disclosure that although I am a Zen Buddhist, the meditation is not Zen Buddhism. Strangely enough, after I say this, no one has ever asked me what is Zen.

For me, Zen is laminar, resonant, copacetic, sympathetic, complementary, harmonic; and yet something I can’t describe, I just know it when I feel it.

The point of practice? To find it in the irregular, discordant, disagreeable, disdainful, confrontational, and incongruous life where it always has been in the first place.

Gassho
Sat/lah

[Dan]

Slip-Sliding Away

Metta to all:

To me Zen is hanging up the "I," suit in the closet, and venturing out without the filter of the"I," suit on. But, the vestiges of the "I," suit still cling to me. No matter what I do some "I," suit underwear is till present. I can't fully perceive the void although I feel it as a presence. I think the Heart Sutra is literal. "Form is emptiness." This book and to a greater extent, Treeleaf, and Shikantaza Zazen are teaching me that to percieve that that perceives us all I have to let go of my perceptions altogether. Zen is like the Paul Simmons song, "You near your destination the more you're slip-sliding away."

Gassho,
Sat/Lah

[Jundo]

Metta to all:

To me Zen is hanging up the "I," suit in the closet, and venturing out without the filter of the"I," suit on. But, the vestiges of the "I," suit still cling to me. No matter what I do some "I," suit underwear is till present. I can't fully perceive the void although I feel it as a presence. I think the Heart Sutra is literal. "Form is emptiness." This book and to a greater extent, Treeleaf, and Shikantaza Zazen are teaching me that to percieve that that perceives us all I have to let go of my perceptions altogether. Zen is like the Paul Simmons song, "You near your destination the more you're slip-sliding away."

Gassho,
Sat/Lah

Why do you feel that you must run around naked? Stay like that, and you'll just catch cold! Sometimes naked, sometimes clothed, but isn't the true body present all along?

I hope this helps ...

https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?16333-Shikantaza-question&p=225937&viewfull=1#post225937

Gassho, J

SatTodayLAH

[Mr_Kha]

I got the book some weeks ago and was surprised it is on the list of the Book Group. However, haven't really started. I read the first chapter this morning. I practiced Zen, but I actually have not read much books about it, except Thich Nhat Hanh, who probably is not the best intro if you join Soto Zen. I will give some of my ideas in my next comment, I want to read the first chapter and intro again.

Gassho,
Karsten

- could not sit today, because I am at war with local authorities, but maybe later -

[Troy]

Lol guys [emoji4][emoji1374] deep bows. Thank you for being great teachers


Sat2day

[Michael Joseph]

Hello all,

I bought the book through Audible and listened to it several months ago. I just wanted to mention that in case there are any differences in the audio and print versions.

What is Zen? I thought a knew what Zen was a few months ago, but that wasn't it. I thought I knew what Zen was a year an a half ago when I joined Treeleaf, but that wasn't it. I thought I knew what Zen was years ago when I started reading about it, but hat wasn't it. What I think now is: Zen is the acceptance of the continual revision of what I think I know about life, living in the midst of it not as an I but as an eye--and accepting that, finally, this is not it either.

Gassho,

Michael

STLAH