Clouds and sky- Thank you
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Hello All,
Although this reading was just the introduction and one chapter to me there were a lot of great quotes and ideas enclosed.
"Buddhism changed in each country it came to, as it adapted itself to a different culture." "These tend to be slow, evolutionary changes, as the animal that is Zen learns to survive in a new habitat."
So true and so interesting as a few hundred years ago monks would never have anticipated a man from Massachusetts would sit in a sangha with a teacher in Japan and members all around the world. This is a topic that has interested me for a while. Most religions have done a reasonable job clinging to the ancient texts that are attributed to the founding of the religion / practice (Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Christianity). However, these texts and the practice developed around them were made in a drastically different time by drastically different people. Litterally everything has changed since that time, culture, language, technology, and science. Still these texts are the core of the religion and some people take their meaning litterally although they could never fathom the situation the original author was in and the meaning behind the words as they were written.
"And all of this affects one's ability to sit still and be quiet. Is stillness possible now?"
Again an interesting question and concept. I find that when i am not when i am not on the zafu stillness almost feels un-natural or impossible. My phone or my tablet or my TV are always at hand to wisk me away and make time fly by. However, once i get to the zafu stillness comes easy and feels like the most natural thing in the world. Almost as if a switch has been flipped.
"But to practice nonharming toward other human beings and the environment is more challenging now than it was in Buddha's time, when it was possible to know who had grown your food and woven your clothes, and what trees were cut down to build your house. How do we chop wood and carry water now? How do we live simply and sustainably now?
This led to a thought "Does a person have less control over their aquired Karma now then ever before?". Just looking at food consumption now adays we see many beings are killed due to modern agriculture techniques and factory farming. Although the consumer is not typically aware of it much suffering is left in the wake of all items seen in the grocery store.
Now on to Jundo's question. I do agree with Michael's post about how the "definition" of Zen shifts over time. However, i believe this quote from the book states my feelings on the question much more eloquently then i could.
"Zen practice helps us to be more present with the actual life we are living. And the more present we are, the more we see through our many projected delusions and illusions and enjoy our lives, seeing our difficulties as intriquing challenges rather than sad failures. Being alive is a gift and a responsibility. Practice helps us see and live it like that."
James F
Sat LAHComment
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Thanks for all of the comments above. I was rather intrigued by what Susan Moon says in the introduction about how the book's dialogue is "more personal and probably more frank than the more recent books written by single authors..." though I assume those qualities become more evident in later parts of the book than chapter one. Still, it seems to me perhaps already somewhat evident in what Moon says in the introduction about practicing with some ambivalence for many years and her initial questions about Zen practice and whether it was for her. That last bit of background was helpful for me to read.
Gassho--Deborah
SatToday
LAHComment
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The point is to address the fear of death.
Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_Comment
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You are also right. Or maybe it's figuring out how best to spend our time while waiting to die.
But I do agree with you, despite my lightheartedness, though I would expand it a little and say that Zen's point (one of many) is to address the fear of the unknown (death being the most urgent example), and every moment is the unknown. Making peace with the unknown of each moment, each being, each thought. Thank you, Jishin. These are thoughts I've had but was never able to articulate until this moment.
Gassho,
Michael
STLAHComment
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I really like the phrase (p3) "The fire god comes seeking fire". In terms of what is Zen and goalessness...I'd say something along the lines of letting go of the longing for an experience other than the one I'm having. But even trying to put it into words sounds silly. Having a goal in zazen seems to be about wanting to be someplace and some time else...but where else is there? Something like that. I'm looking forward to the rest of the book.
Gassho
Eishuu
ST/LAHComment
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What is Zen? We have an appointment to euthanize our 17-year-old family dog who suffers from a multitude of ailments. It helps to realize there is no “we,” no “family dog,” and no “euthanasia.” At the same time, we will cry like babies. That is Zen.
Gassho
Meishin
Sat Today LAHComment
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Our attachments are amazing things. Logically 17 years is a long life for a dog, you have given it a good life with people who care, and it is likely suffering due to age related ailments. Yet logic goes out the window when separating from a being you love and all that is left is sorrow. Metta to you and your family.
James F
Sat lah
Sent from my SM-G920V using TapatalkComment
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Much metta to your and your family, Meishin.
Those four-pawed buddhas really give a lot of love.
Gassho
KokuuComment
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Eishuu, do you know the passage from Bendowa that refers to "The fire god comes seeking fire"?
GasshoLong ago there was a monk called Prior Soku who lived in Master Hogen's order. Master Hogen asked him: “Soku, how long have you been with us?”
Soku said: “I have been here for three years now.”
The master said: “Since you are quite a new member, why don't you ever ask me about the Buddha's truth?”
Soku replied somewhat arrogantly: “I'd better tell you the truth. When I was studying with Master Seiho I attained the state of enlightenment.”
The master said: “What were the words that enlightened you?”
Soku said: “I once asked Seiho, ‘Who am I, this student?’
And Seiho replied, ‘That which the fire created comes looking for fire.’”
The master said: “Those words are true, but I wonder if you understood what he meant by them.”
Soku said: “Well, that which fire created comes looking for fire – I understood him to mean that I am already fire, but I am looking for fire. I am looking for myself although I am already myself.”
The master said: “Now I am sure that you missed the point of what he was saying to you. If the truth of the Buddha were only a kind of intellectual recognition, then it would never have survived for so long.”
Then Soku became embarrassed and disturbed, and stood up and started to leave the temple. But after a while on the path he thought to himself, 'Master Hogen is known as a good teacher throughout China, and he is teaching over 500 students. There must be something in his criticism of me.'
Then Soku returned to the temple to apologise and to respectfully ask Master Hogen to explain to him where he was wrong. He asked: “Who am I, this student?”
The master replied: “That which the fire created COMES LOOKING for fire.”
Hearing these words, Soku fully realized what the truth of the Buddha is.
-- translation by Mike Eido Luetchford, 2004.
Kokuu
-sattoday-Comment
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Kokuu,
Thanks for sharing the full story. I have heard it before but the emphasis on the last repetition of the saying stuck me like a bell at the end of zazen. Showing the emphasis on those two words changed the meaning entirely.
Gassho James F
SAT LAH
Sent from my SM-G920V using TapatalkComment
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Much metta to you and your family Meishin
Sat2dayComment
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I get a little teary when I realize how many warm and wise folks there are in this Sangha. Lovely.
ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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