Heart Sutra

**Risho** · 03-08-2017, 03:29 PM

Thank you Tom and Jundo

Tom - part of me was being a zenny, but I also wanted to know how you would practice it. Thank you for sharing.

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

**Shoki** · 03-08-2017, 05:00 PM

I recommend "Thunderous Silence : A Formula For Ending Suffering" by Dosung Yoo.

Gassho
Sat2day
James

**Jundo** · 03-09-2017, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by James

I recommend "Thunderous Silence : A Formula For Ending Suffering" by Dosung Yoo.

Gassho
Sat2day
James

Thank you. I will have a look.

By the way, the author is a teacher of "Won Buddhism", which is rather a Korean new religion with their own Buddhist teachings. The author may approach the Heart Sutra from such perspectives, many of which sound very nice (yes, one can "approach" Emptiness!

). I do not have much familiarity with the details of the group.

http://what-when-how.com/religious-movements/won-buddhism-religious-movement/

The Grace in This World

https://tricycle.org/magazine/the-grace-in-this-world/

An interview with Venerable Chwasan, former head dharma master of the Won Buddhist Order

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

**Joyo** · 03-12-2017, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by Jundo

Oh, yes yes! He covers the Heart Sutra and many of the other Chants that one encounters around here.

LIVING BY VOW
A Practical Introduction to Eight Essential Zen Chants and Texts
Shohaku Okumura

Living by Vow - The Wisdom Experience

http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/living-vow

This immensely useful book explores Zen’s rich tradition of chanted liturgy and the powerful ways that such chants support meditation, expressing and helping us truly uphold our heartfelt vows to live a life of freedom and compassion. Exploring eight of Zen’s most essential and universal liturgical texts, Living by Vow is a handbook to walking […]

Perhaps that book, or Red Pine's, would be good as our next selection in the "Beyond Words & Letters Book Club"? Hmmmm.

By the way, most of the Chants (Heart Sutra, Harmony of Relative & Absolute, Four Vows ... ) are actually statements of Zen Buddhist and Mahayana philosophy and viewpoints. The Heart Sutra and "Harmony of Relative & Absolute", for example, are basic statements of Emptiness, the interidentity of such to this world of apparent form in which we live, and the role of the human mind in creating such interidentity. (It is not that Zen is free of all philosophizing and doctrines and viewpoints, but merely that our philosophy and often mindbending viewpoints are not are usual ways of seeing and experiencing the world and who we are, and we know when to think about things ... and when to put the words down and not to!) Monks of old understood this basic philosophy and these doctrines, engraving them in their bones, before they "burned the books." So, I usually recommend folks to read and understand what is written there, and then and only then, to forget about what the words mean and pour oneself into the sound ... ... ...

Gassho, J

SatToday

I have never read Living By Vow, but I have wanted to. I would definitely be interested in joining the book club for either of these books.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

**Tairin** · 03-12-2017, 03:20 PM

Chanting is one of the aspects of Zen that I am less comfortable with. Having said that I'd be interested in a book club study that focused on one of these books Perhaps a deeper understanding of the Heart Sutra would give me more appreciation for that aspect of this practice.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

**Jundo** · 03-12-2017, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by awarren

Chanting is one of the aspects of Zen that I am less comfortable with. Having said that I'd be interested in a book club study that focused on one of these books Perhaps a deeper understanding of the Heart Sutra would give me more appreciation for that aspect of this practice.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

Chanting is just singing a happy tune. Nothing much to think about. When chanting, just tap one's foot, snap the fingers and throw oneself into the beat.

Just found this online (no information on the maker) ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_f7_AnmstQ

Gassho, Jundo
SatToday

**Risho** · 03-13-2017, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by Jundo

Chanting is just singing a happy tune. Nothing much to think about. When chanting, just tap one's foot, snap the fingers and throw oneself into the beat.

Gassho, Jundo
SatToday

I really like that! Thank you

Gassho

Risho
-sattoday

**Jeremy** · 03-13-2017, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Jundo

Chanting is just singing a happy tune. Nothing much to think about. When chanting, just tap one's foot, snap the fingers and throw oneself into the beat.

Yes, as Dogen nearly said in Bendowa: Those who chant sutras are like frogs croaking in a spring paddy field. Just don't do it endlessly, day and night, and don't expect to gain anything from it. In the end it is all useless.

What could be more natural than croaking like a frog?

Jeremy
SatToday

(That's a very twisted rendition of what Dogen said, but I like the image of frogs croaking in a spring paddy field

).

**Jundo** · 03-13-2017, 10:24 AM

Originally posted by Jeremy

Yes, as Dogen nearly said in Bendowa: Those who chant sutras are like frogs croaking in a spring paddy field. Just don't do it endlessly, day and night, and don't expect to gain anything from it. In the end it is all useless.

What could be more natural than croaking like a frog?

Jeremy
SatToday

(That's a very twisted rendition of what Dogen said, but I like the image of frogs croaking in a spring paddy field

).

Hi Jeremy,

But historians have also shown that Dogen was a big Chanter at Eiheiji. Read the top paragraph here, summarizing Prof. Foulk's "Just Sitting?" article ...

Dogen

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=kVZpAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA7&dq=foulk+just+sitting?++dogen&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjvluzBodPSAhWIyLwKHTPlAEwQ6AEIITAB#v=onepage&q=foulk%20just%20sitting%3F%20%20dogen&f=false

In this groundbreaking collection of essays edited by Steven Heine, leading scholars of Buddhism from both sides of the Pacific explore the life and thought of Zen Master Dogen (1200-1253), the founder of the Japanese Soto sect. Through both textual and historical analysis, the volume shows Dogen in context of the Chinese Chan tradition that influenced him and demonstrates the tremendous, lasting impact he had on Buddhist thought and culture in Japan. Special attention is given to the Shobogenzo and several of its fascicles, which express D?gen's views on such practices and rituals as using supranormal powers (jinzu), reading the sutras (kankin), diligent training in zazen meditation (shikan taza), and the koan realized in everyday life (genjokoan). Dogen: Textual and Historical Studies also analyzes the historical significance of this seminal figure: for instance, Dogen's methods of appropriating or contrasting with Chan sources, as well as how Dogen was understood and examined in later periods, including modern times. This book is a crucial contribution to the advancement of specialized studies of Dogen, as well as to the Chan/Zen school in the context of East Asian religions and their social and historical trends.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

**Jeremy** · 03-13-2017, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Jundo

Hi Jeremy,

But historians have also shown that Dogen was a big Chanter at Eiheiji. Read the top paragraph here, summarizing Prof. Foulk's "Just Sitting?" article ...

I know - my croaking frogs post was meant as a joke

Jeremy
SatToday

**Ongen** · 03-13-2017, 12:18 PM

Would be great if you pick up on the Heart Sutra in april, Jundo

Gassho
Ongen

**Taiyo** · 03-13-2017, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Ongen

Would be great if you pick up on the Heart Sutra in april, Jundo

Gassho
Ongen

I totally agree. I enjoyed the Xin Xin Ming talks very much and this would be nice

Gassho,
Taiyo

SatToday

**Shoki** · 03-15-2017, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Jundo

Thank you. I will have a look.

By the way, the author is a teacher of "Won Buddhism", which is rather a Korean new religion with their own Buddhist teachings. The author may approach the Heart Sutra from such perspectives, many of which sound very nice (yes, one can "approach" Emptiness!

). I do not have much familiarity with the details of the group.

http://what-when-how.com/religious-movements/won-buddhism-religious-movement/

The Grace in This World

https://tricycle.org/magazine/the-grace-in-this-world/

An interview with Venerable Chwasan, former head dharma master of the Won Buddhist Order

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

Yes it's a little esoteric with the Won approach, especially later on in the book. But it's a good read.

**Kaisho** · 03-15-2017, 10:13 PM

I also have been curious as to the heart sutra. If you choose to do it I would be very interested.

Gassho
Chelsea
Sat2day

Sent from my LGLS675 using Tapatalk

**Beakon** · 03-16-2017, 01:58 AM

Hahaha! That cheered me up.

So, I am trying memorize the heart sutra, but I find it difficult to internalize. I know spiritually I can understand it. Afterall, I knew there was something special about The Heart Sutra, and many other sutras. This particular sutra invokes strength in faith. You can learn more about the history of The Heart Sutra by watching this documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrD508saRaM

Heart Sutra

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