Heart Sutra

[Kyousui]

That sutra is fascinating and really needs to be practiced in order to understand truly but my intellectual part wants details. At the last coffeehouse Thich Naht Hahn's book The Heart of Understanding Commentaries on the Prajnaparamita Heart Sutra was recommended. I'm slowly reading it, slowly because I want to digest it fully.

Maybe Jundo et al. might post something too. I see there were videos on the topic but they don't seem to be accessible now.

Possibly other members might like to comment on their understandings of the sutra?

[Jundo]

Hi Tom,

I usually recommend translator/scholar Red Pine's book, which offers a detailed yet readable explanation of the meaning and history line by line. It is not perfect, but it is darn good.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XKN6IC/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Hmmm, I haven't spoken about the Heart Sutra for a few years now ... and the old talks seem to have vanished into emptiness and impermanency. Perhaps April's monthly Zazenkai talk would be a good chance to get back into it? Or maybe it will take a short series of talks ... Hmmmm. Let's do it!

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Seishin]

Jundo

Looking at it from the perspective of a newbie like me, a series of talks would be of great value. It would allow study of the Sutra at ones own pace but also add to the library of lessons provided here, which is invaluable to folks like me starting out on this path and can be revisited 10000 times, as ones experience grows and understanding deepens.

I'm sure there'll be future new 'leafers who would therefore benefit. Just my 2 cents.

[lorax]

Thanks Tom for getting Jundo back on the Heart Sutra again! Was just thinking about that the other day how over time you start to loose your grasp on this wonderful practice. Waiting for the new talks.

SAT TODAY

[Jishin]

There is nothing to say about the Heart Sutra. It's the ultimate prank.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kyousui]

There is nothing to say about the Heart Sutra. It's the ultimate prank.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

But it cannot be all said

[Shokai]

I found Shohaku Okamura's explanation in his book "Living by Vow" to be very helpful.

gassho,

Sat Today

[Geika]

After reading or chanting it almost every day for years now, I don't really feel the need to try and talk about it. It seems against the grain for me. But of course there are many here who might like lots of discussion on it. Who am I to argue? My only words will be, take once daily and let it settle in.

Gassho, sat today

[Risho]

Jishin - hahahaha I love it

Tom - how do you really practice the heart sutra?

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

[Jundo]

I found Shohaku Okamura's explanation in his book "Living by Vow" to be very helpful.

gassho,

Sat Today

Oh, yes yes! He covers the Heart Sutra and many of the other Chants that one encounters around here.

LIVING BY VOW
A Practical Introduction to Eight Essential Zen Chants and Texts
Shohaku Okumura

http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/living-vow

Perhaps that book, or Red Pine's, would be good as our next selection in the "Beyond Words & Letters Book Club"? Hmmmm.

By the way, most of the Chants (Heart Sutra, Harmony of Relative & Absolute, Four Vows ... ) are actually statements of Zen Buddhist and Mahayana philosophy and viewpoints. The Heart Sutra and "Harmony of Relative & Absolute", for example, are basic statements of Emptiness, the interidentity of such to this world of apparent form in which we live, and the role of the human mind in creating such interidentity. (It is not that Zen is free of all philosophizing and doctrines and viewpoints, but merely that our philosophy and often mindbending viewpoints are not are usual ways of seeing and experiencing the world and who we are, and we know when to think about things ... and when to put the words down and not to!) Monks of old understood this basic philosophy and these doctrines, engraving them in their bones, before they "burned the books." So, I usually recommend folks to read and understand what is written there, and then and only then, to forget about what the words mean and pour oneself into the sound ... ... ...

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Risho]

Yes please! I haven't read Red Pine's version since around the time I joined Treeleaf; a lot of it didn't make sense back then; I had just, just, just started sitting. I'd really love to read that.

Gassho

Risho
-sattoday

[Jishin]

I like Red Pine.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Mp]

Oh, yes yes! He covers the Heart Sutra and many of the other Chants that one encounters around here.

LIVING BY VOW
A Practical Introduction to Eight Essential Zen Chants and Texts
Shohaku Okumura

http://www.wisdompubs.org/book/living-vow

Perhaps that book, or Red Pine's, would be good as our next selection in the "Beyond Words & Letters Book Club"? Hmmmm.

By the way, most of the Chants (Heart Sutra, Harmony of Relative & Absolute, Four Vows ... ) are actually statements of Zen Buddhist and Mahayana philosophy and viewpoints. The Heart Sutra and "Harmony of Relative & Absolute", for example, are basic statements of Emptiness, the interidentity of such to this world of apparent form in which we live, and the role of the human mind in creating such interidentity. (It is not that Zen is free of all philosophizing and doctrines and viewpoints, but merely that our philosophy and often mindbending viewpoints are not are usual ways of seeing and experiencing the world and who we are, and we know when to think about things ... and when to put the words down and not to!) Monks of old understood this basic philosophy and these doctrines, engraving them in their bones, before they "burned the books." So, I usually recommend folks to read and understand what is written there, and then and only then, to forget about what the words mean and pour oneself into the sound ... ... ...

Gassho, J

SatToday

Living by Vow is a lovely read ... I would very much look forward to it being a book for reading during our book club. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Kyousui]

J
Tom - how do you really practice the heart sutra?

Gassho,

Risho

I see the emoticon but I do have a fairly straight answer:
* Chant and contemplate it in meditation.
* Avidly read about it outside of meditation time - Ends up spurring me to some fine mindfullness meditation.
* Recognize the annica when I get into a mood.

[Jundo]

I see the emoticon but I do have a fairly straight answer:
* Chant and contemplate it in meditation.
* Avidly read about it outside of meditation time - Ends up spurring me to some fine mindfullness meditation.
* Recognize the annica when I get into a mood.

And feel such in the bones. That just comes with time. It is like the difference between reading about jazz, perhaps listening to a cd of jazz with little sense ... and playing jazz and feeling jazz in the bones ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03juO5oS2gg

(substitute for "jazz" the art, act or music genre of your choice)

By the way, Zen is also about simplicity ... as in the Ryokan poem Kyonin recited this week ...

My house is buried in the deepest recess of the forest
Every year, ivy vines grow longer than the year before.
Undisturbed by the affairs of the world I live at ease,
Woodmen’s singing rarely reaching me through the trees.
While the sun stays in the sky, I mend my torn clothes
And facing the moon, I read holy texts aloud to myself.
Let me drop a word of advice for believers of my faith.
To enjoy life’s immensity, you do not need many things.

Even those folks of old who would build a hut of grass in the woods usually had studied a bit, and understood, basic Zen philosophy and doctrines and practices before tossing it all away and heading off into the woods. Why?

It is the difference between just a guy with a vacation cabin, and someone who truly understands what is to be one with the trees.

Gassho, J

SatToday