Zazen and earworms

[Ryumon]

I like music. I listen to music a lot, and I play music as well (at least I try).

Every now and then, I hear a tune that becomes an earworm; that's when you have a melody that your mind keeps playing over and over, that you can't escape. You may experience this when you hear a song on TV just before you go to work; or when you've been listening to the same song a lot. I find that I get earworms often when I'm trying to play new songs on my guitar. (Robert Johnson, lately.)

When I sit zazen, those earworms are present. They arise and fade away. They are probably more pervasive than thoughts, because they repeat themselves. This is probably the hardest thing I've found to deal with in zazen, because they seem to have a life of their own: unlike thoughts, which are generally narratives about things we do, want to do, or have done, earworms seem to have a life of their own. They go nowhere, they just play.

Anyone else get earworms? How do you deal with them when sitting?

Gassho,

Kirk

[Seishin]

Kirk

Strange I know what you mean, especially when learning to play a new song, listening to the original over and over. I did a cover collaboration with a friend in Russia of an Irish punk rock track. Playing the guitar part was OK but the lyrics were hard to nail and for weeks it was reverberating in my head. It was so hard to escape when sitting and I really had to concentrate hard to get back to my breaths and let go.

I've learnt a few songs since sitting regularly but so far this was the only one causing problems when sitting but hey not surprising at its a pumping tempo full of energy. Oh yeah brings a big grin playing or so singing.

I'll see if this repeats in future projects but I mashed up my left index finger tip early December so my playing has been pants but at least zazen has been improving.

[Jundo]

Let the tune go, do not grab on.

If that fails to work, follow the rhythm of the breath.

If that does not work, tap your foot in the Lotus and sing along.

But in whichever case, can one hear the Holy Tune that springs from the Emptiness Record Co., with all silence and noise in between and right through each note?

Kirk, you image of Shikantaza seems misplaced. You hear earworms, but fail to hear with Kannon's 1000 ears. Are you still hoping for quiet, or for Silence that is all noise and quiet?

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Ryumon]

Zazen and earworms

No, not hoping for quiet at all. Just noting recently that musical thoughts seem to come from a different place than discursive thoughts.

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat

[Kyonin]

Hi Kirk!

Many times I have sat with Van Hallen, Herbie Hancock and Daft Punk. I simply let it play and enjoy. Eventually it also fades away

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Tairin]

Hi Kirk

I think I understand what you mean. Ear worms (a term I don't particularly care for) seem to have the ability to lodge themselves in my mind more so than thoughts. I am also a musician and I don't know if that is related or not. While I may be able to sit and let thoughts rise and fall, a song does not seem to fade the same way. When I started practicing Zazen I asked the teacher at my local Zen centre and she said something similar to what Jundo and Kyonin said. These days I just treat it as my life's soundtrack but try to not follow the piece. Just let it be.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

[Ryumon]

Zazen and earworms

The term is used in psychology. And earworms are actually something that has been studied quite a lot. Here's a link to Google Scholar with lots of articles:

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=psychology+of+earworms&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4kP7UsZzSAhVGExoKHUCPDEEQgQMIGDAA

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat


I know nothing.

[Tairin]

The term is used in psychology. And earworms are actually something that has been studied quite a lot. Here's a link to Google Scholar with lots of articles:

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=psychology+of+earworms&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj4kP7UsZzSAhVGExoKHUCPDEEQgQMIGDAA

Oh I am quite familiar with the term. I just don't care for it.

Gassho
Warren
Sat today

[Ryumon]

Fair enough. I find it quite an appropriate image. ;-)

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat

[Jakuden]

Wow how funny I never realized how much this was studied. I do have ear worms occasionally when sitting, note them, note my irritation with them , rinse and repeat. Then I let go of the judgement that it was a silly way to spend a Zazen period. [emoji52]

Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Jishin]

Zazen and earworms

It's just exacerbation of OCD. Shikantaza is not a cure for OCD but may help as a pleasant side effect.

My 2 cents.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Ryumon]

Earworms have nothing to do with OCD.

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat


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[Jishin]

Earworms have nothing to do with OCD.

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat


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Obsessive-compulsive disorder:

Patients with OCD (lifetime prevalence >1%) typically suffer from obsessions and compulsions. Earworms are considered intrusions: unwelcome involuntary thoughts, they are a subtype of obsessions. People experiencing earworms as terribly annoying and stressful are more likely to express typical OCD symptoms (such as mysophobia — a fear of germs, dirt, and contamination).

http://bjgp.org/content/66/643/90

https://askthepsych.com/atp/2008/04/08/earworms/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4304165/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earworm

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Ryumon]

Zazen and earworms

From Wikipedia:

According to research by James Kellaris, 98% of individuals experience earworms.

So 98% of people have OCD...

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat

[Jishin]

Zazen and earworms

From Wikipedia:

According to research by James Kellaris, 98% of individuals experience earworms.

So 98% of people have OCD...

Gassho,

Kirk

Sat

Read the entire deal from Wikipedia:

With mental illness:

In a 2006 book by Daniel Levitin entitled This Is Your Brain on Music: The Science of a Human Obsession, he states that research has shown musicians and people with obsessive–compulsive disorder (OCD) are more likely to suffer from earworm attacks. An attack usually involves a small portion of a song, a hook, equal to or less than the capacity of one's auditory short-term memory. Levitin reports that capacity as usually 15 to 30 seconds. Simple tunes are more likely to get stuck than complex pieces of music. He also suggests that in some situations, OCD medications might minimize the effects.


IMG_0727.JPGIMG_0728.JPG

If my voice is going over and over in your head, kind of like an earworm, then welcome to the club!

[emoji2]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_