Split Thread: A Question on "Faking It & Making It"

[Seishin]

Hi Toby,

You would be wrong to think that these moments are the point of Zazen or what we are looking for. If they happen, then they happen. If they do not happen, then they do not happen.

In this way, Zazen is a radical and vibrant non-searching and resting much more profound that any passing feeling of being "in the zone" or feeling that one is focused "in the moment" for some activity.

Likewise, we do not run after or seek to "be peaceful", for Zazen is a 'Big P' Peace that is so peaceful that it transcends any small human feeling of being "peaceful" or feeling sometimes "not peaceful" in some setting, and is truly At Peace with feeling either or whatever life throws at one. That's True Peace! When feeling peaceful, just be that. When feeling not peaceful, just be at home as that ... and one may actually come to penetrate and live True Peace that it not dependent on the small ups and downs, quiet or chaos changes of this life and world.

So, sometimes we feel "in the Zone" and sometimes not at all, sometimes we are "in the moment" and sometimes not ... and in the way thus we discover the true 'Big Z' Zone (we sometimes say "Zoneless Zone" for it is so boundless and all inclusive of all life) and 'Big M' Moment (a Momentless Moment that holds timelessly all small ordinary earthly measures and moments of time).

Believe me, it is a much more profound All-Inclusive Serenity than just some passing calmness and serenity.

Does that make any sense?

Gassho, J

SatToday

Jundo

More a by product against the point of zazen I'd say but thinking some more and reading this reply, I guess my zazen is good zazen, not good or bad, just as it is, however it is. Que sera sera to fenchify that old Spanish song title.

Sat part of Zazenkai this morning with this in mind but also with a more relax body and mind. New perspective no perspective. Telling myself this was complete and all it needed to be. Thoughts came and went, questions arose. But as Byokan says the questions are there because we sit so I just acknowledged and accepted them.

So I think I can say the zazen is where it should. The marrow deep faith and trust will come in time I'm sure, I just need to have some,..........eh...........faith and trust..

At the end of the day all I can hope is this thread is useful to other novices encountering these same doubts.

And by the way the anonymous post was very moving before I get completely wrapped up in myself, so thanks for sharing.

[lorax]

Some times discussions on this core subject become complex trying to describe the un-describable. I can't offer much but a couple of observations. I started sitting in a natural environment, in a forest high on a volcano in Hawaii. My companions were the sounds of the forest, the birds, the winds, the insects. I was just part of it. After a time I stopped trying to follow the "rules" and just sat. Eventually I think it can be best described like learning to ride a road bike. All the gears, light weight frame, etc. wobbling down the road. Soon all the mechanics and balance issue are forgotten and you just ride.

The gift of zazen is you can take it with you where ever you go, no need for special zafu or zabutans really, no need for an Buddha statue, etc. This came home this weekend when I was in the hospital, alone, some 170 miles from home and my family, found a wide chair in the corner of the room, and sat.... such an opportunity to drop all the anxiety and stress that got me there....

So like the others have said, just sit, it will eventually become part of you.

SAT TODAY

[Jundo]

Hope you are healing Lorax.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[lorax]

I am. Learning to let go. They hauled me there early in the morning thinking it was a heart attack, turned out to be stress. Less news, less Face Book, accept the family situation... Thanks for the note.

SAT TODAY

[Jakuden]

Oh dear, I hope you feel better! It seems like I hear about this type of thing more and more, folks being admitted for apparent strokes, heart attacks, even comas and then finding out it was a stress event. A sign of the times [emoji45] Please take care. Sending you Metta.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Seishin]

Lorax

I hope you have a speedy recovery and I'm glad that this was not a physiological event but stress is just as bad. My wife suffers from a rare form of angina that can be triggered by anything or nothing, a kinda zen angina! Stress for her is a big no no which is why we left the Uk for rural France.

Much metta to you and your family and rest assured I will just sit. Being a life long motorcyclist/biker and Mr Pirsig being my most earliest recollection of anything zen, I know that "just ride" feeling oh so well and know I'll find it in zazen wherever I sit, I've just gotta be patient and let it happen when it happens.

Take care and look after yourself.

Cheers

Toby
STd

[Byokan]

Sending metta your way, Lorax!

Gassho
Byōkan
sat today

[Mp]

I am. Learning to let go. They hauled me there early in the morning thinking it was a heart attack, turned out to be stress. Less news, less Face Book, accept the family situation... Thanks for the note.

SAT TODAY

I hope you are ok Lorax ... I agree, less media junk and more positive things in life. Be well. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

[Getchi]

I hope you are ok Lorax ... I agree, less media junk and more positive things in life. Be well. =)

Gassho
Shingen

s@today

This, coupled with Jundos instructions to "not strain, not attain, not know" and I'm a happy camp er.

[Joyo]

I am. Learning to let go. They hauled me there early in the morning thinking it was a heart attack, turned out to be stress. Less news, less Face Book, accept the family situation... Thanks for the note.

SAT TODAY

I hope you are feeling better. Thank you for the teaching. Much metta!

Jundo, thank you for highlighting this thread, lots of good teachings here.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Seishin]

Thought I'd come back to this thread, as my sitting has been very different over the last week or so. I've seem to have dropped the perpetual dialogue questioning how I'm sitting, all the frequent analysis. For days now I've just sat, my mind settling reasonably quicker, with no thoughts of right and wrong.

Yes the clouds come and go and I'll get snagged up and tangled now and then, forcibly having to tell myself to let go but on the whole the zafu seems a better place.

Just thought I'd share this, as this discussion seems to have helped me drop all the questioning and allow an acceptance of just sitting.

[Jundo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDSPwexlyTo

For those who are not old movie fans ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVmU3iANbgk

[MyoHo]

how very festive! Who and what made you post this classic bit? We used to have TCM in Holland and now that its pay TV and so gone, I miss it very mutch. There is something about these movies, no? Thank you Jundo!

Gassho

MyoHo

[Seishin]

Thank you Jundo. Being of a certain age I didn't even need to watch those clips. Timeless..........now where have I heard that before.