Second Noble Truth

[Aurkihnowe]

Am I alone in thinking the second Noble truth, the origin of suffering, loses something in translation? Craving is what it's popularly attributed to, but wouldn't "grasping" be an equally appropriate translation? I know from reading experience that dukkha is more appropriately translated as unsatisfactoriness or a feeling of incompleteness. Does anyone know of a good Pali/Sanskrit to English dictionary?

Gassho Richard

[Jundo]

Am I alone in thinking the second Noble truth, the origin of suffering, loses something in translation? Craving is what it's popularly attributed to, but wouldn't "grasping" be an equally appropriate translation? I know from reading experience that dukkha is more appropriately translated as unsatisfactoriness or a feeling of incompleteness. Does anyone know of a good Pali/Sanskrit to English dictionary?

Gassho Richard

Hi Richard,

I have no trouble with the origin of Dukkha being rendered as "desire" or "grasping" or "attachment". We desire X or grasp and are attached to X ... yet X is denied us and Y happens. The resulting gap is "Dukkha" (suffering or unsatisfactoriness) when we resist or feel denied by such fact, with resulting emotional frustration, feelings of sadness and loss, regret and the rest. Even a happy event or good fortune can be a source of Dukkha if we cling to that fact when we grasp at it, desiring excessively that it remain forever, afraid it will slip away or be lost.

It is not rocket science, I think.

The word usually associated with the origin of Dukkha is "Tanha" ... Tanha (Sanskrit: Trsna), is often translated as desire, craving, thirst, want, longing, yearning, sometimes "greed" (to mark excess desire). They all work. In a recent book, Stephen Batchelor tried "reactivity", which I thought was a bit off mark, but I get the point. Likewise, it is our reacting, resistance, feeling of loss and sorrow, in the face of unfulfilled wants or denial.

Shikantaza, by the way, is a powerful medicine for Tanha and Dukkha, as we sit in the total completeness of sitting, no loss possible, with equanimity like a welcoming mirror for all that life brings. Tanha is dropped, we are at one with all that comes, and Dukkha cannot arise.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

[Kyonin]

Shikantaza, by the way, is a powerful medicine for Tanha and Dukkha, as we sit in the total completeness of sitting, no loss possible, with equanimity like a welcoming mirror for all that life brings. Tanha is dropped, we are at one with all that comes, and Dukkha cannot arise.

Yes! When we sit we don't keep on consuming stuff, using or manipulating things. Thus, shikantaza quenches desires if only for a bit. Thank you, Jundo.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Rae7Mac]

I am reading Stephen Batchelor's new book, “After Buddhism: Rethinking the Dharma for a Secular Age”. He discusses your question at length, including the Pali translation. Thought I'd pass that along, also he does the narration on the audio book.

Gassho,
Rae

[Jundo]

I am reading Stephen Batchelor's new book, “After Buddhism: Rethinking the Dharma for a Secular Age”. He discusses your question at length, including the Pali translation. Thought I'd pass that along, also he does the narration on the audio book.

Gassho,
Rae

Batchelor does offer a very personal translation, however. In his attempt to get back to the "roots" of real Buddhism, he seems to fall in the trap of creating his own impositions of meaning.

A review by me and Buddhadharma magazine, a lot of folks seem to agree ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14082-Stephen-Batchelor-s-After-Buddhism&p=174093&viewfull=1#post174093

Gassho, J

SatToday