Hogen's Dharma Transmission

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  • FaithMoon
    Member
    • Jul 2015
    • 112

    #31
    Is inka dharma transmission?
    I know very little about this, but my understanding is shiho is dharma transmission and inka comes later, something like "seal of approval". Very likely these terms and approvals differ depending on which zen school.
    sat today!

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    • Jundo
      Treeleaf Founder and Priest
      • Apr 2006
      • 40190

      #32
      Originally posted by Jakuden
      Is inka dharma transmission?
      I can only reply as an outsider to Rinzai (or Rinzai influenced) Traditions, it varies from place to place, Line to Line and teacher to teacher. Soto and Rinzai generally have very different ways of approaching this, often misunderstood by many Westerners who can be a bit confused and idealistic about what it means (It is everything, and it is ... especially in the West where people tend to look at it as something more than a step in temple inheritance ... a recognition of insight, and yet it is also a recognition of relationship and family like a wedding or adoption). But here is something that might help ... (I know it is Wikipedia, but it is actually a pretty good, readable and comprehensive treatment from what I see, one of the best I know).



      By the way, I am also a big fan of Daido Lori, and his way of expressing a Koan could sometimes send chills up my spine. Lovely. ( Some folks in that Sanbokyodan/White Plum/Harada-Yasutani-Maezumi Lineage --sometimes-- have an extremely narrow and "second class citizen" view of Shikantaza, which sometimes they hold as only a doorway or weak sister to Koan Zazen, or just focusing on the breath, or an extremely "goal oriented" view of both Shikantaza (and Koan Zazen) which shows that they don't really understand the power and completeness of the Goallessness of "Just Sitting" Zazen ... but I overlook that when it comes up in some of his talks or elsewhere. Their Founding Teachers Harada and Yasutani just never understood the true power and beauty and wholeness of Shikantaza if you ask me, and so went off in other directions, and that ignorance unfortunately became extremely influential in American Zen because Maezumi's students were so prolific as a historical fluke during the Zen Boom of the 60s.) However, Daido had a way of bringing a Koan down to earth like few I know ... maybe it was a little that marvelous voice of his, but mostly that wise wise heart.

      For folks new to the whole question of how all "Zen" books and talks are not the same flavor, I usually point to this essay although a little overdone ...

      once born twice born zen (part not 1)

      Hi All, I thought to post some special reading topics. The theme is "readings that will help in understanding Zen readings". 8) For years and years, after first starting Zen practice, I would read many "Zen Books" but not quite understand why so many seemed to be saying rather different things (or the same


      once born twice born zen (part not 2)
      Howdy, I'd like to continue this special series of "readings that will help in understanding Zen readings" with a bit more of ... Once-Born, Twice-Born Zen by Conrad Hyers I agree with those folks who think the "Once-Born Twice-Born" categories are a bit black/white and broad brush. I do think the book


      Gassho, Jundo

      SatToday
      Last edited by Jundo; 12-16-2016, 06:08 AM.
      ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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      • Zenmei
        Member
        • Jul 2016
        • 270

        #33
        Originally posted by Jundo
        ( Some folks in that Sanbokyodan/White Plum/Harada-Yasutani-Maezumi Lineage --sometimes-- have an extremely narrow and "second class citizen" view of Shikantaza, which sometimes they hold as only a doorway or weak sister to Koan Zazen, or just focusing on the breath, or an extremely "goal oriented" view of both Shikantaza (and Koan Zazen) which shows that they don't really understand the power and completeness of the Goallessness of "Just Sitting" Zazen ... but I overlook that when it comes up in some of his talks or elsewhere.
        Is koan zazen a weak sister to shikantaza?

        Gassho, dudley
        #sat

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        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 40190

          #34
          Originally posted by dudleyf
          Is koan zazen a weak sister to shikantaza?

          Gassho, dudley
          #sat
          I do not feel so. In fact, different patients may benefit from different medicines.

          I do feel that some folks have certain inherited misunderstandings and present Shikantaza in a way that does not really get the power of radical non-attaining, self-fulfillment and completeness in the action itself, which is sometimes lost. Shikantaza is an amazing medicine for the human tendency (especially among modern western folks in this consumer capitalist age) to run run run after shiny things, the next thing. People don't know what it is to be truly still in heart and need nothing else ... even for a few minutes.

          Personally, I am not a fan of Koan Zazen, and I suspect that what often happens in the Dokusan room (especially in the West these days) is all kinds of subjective and wild interpretations of Koans depending on whatever the Teacher or Students feel that day, whatever comes out of the mouth or body in the Dokusan room, what the teacher thinks he or she reads into the situation, and a lot of misunderstanding mixed with more than a little pop-psychology. I think it is these days very subjective, very arbitrary. (In Japan in much of traditional Rinzai, it actually went a very different direction, into a kind of rote memorization process where an "appropriate" response in Dokusan was selected out of a manual. Rinzai Priest and historian Victor Hori writes about this and some other differences of Koan Zazen Practice between Japan and the West from the bottom of p. 73 here. LINK). There is still too much emphasis, especially in the West, on reaching passing Kensho/Satori experiences as the goal of the Practice.

          BUT ...

          I am an outsider to the Koan Zazen tradition, there are so many experienced people who swear by it and love it. I may be wrong and more power to them. I stick with what I do ... total arrival, no place to go, keep on going.

          Gassho, J

          SatToday
          Last edited by Jundo; 12-16-2016, 06:55 AM.
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Jyukatsu
            Member
            • Nov 2015
            • 283

            #35

            Thank you Jundo,
            Marina
            just sat
            柔 Jyū flexible
            活 Katsu energetic

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            • Kyonin
              Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
              • Oct 2010
              • 6745

              #36
              Originally posted by Jundo
              I am an outsider to the Koan Zazen tradition, there are so many experienced people who swear by it and love it. I may be wrong and more power to them. I stick with what I do ... total arrival, no place to go, keep on going.
              Thank you. This seems to me the way to go. But then again I'm just an ignorant man.

              Gassho,

              Kyonin
              #SatToday
              Hondō Kyōnin
              奔道 協忍

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              • FaithMoon
                Member
                • Jul 2015
                • 112

                #37
                I saw Loori speak on the Shobogenzo koans at a Dogen conference in 1999. Honestly all I remember about him is that he smoked like a chimney, but the talk is published here: https://web.stanford.edu/group/scbs/...pers/lori.html

                Faith-Moon
                st
                sat today!

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