Help with zazen : fear of the breathe stopping

[Taiyo]

What puzzles me is this : are the stupid anxious thoughts coming from anxiety, or is anxiety coming from them ?

And probably, the more you think about which came first, the more anxious you'll feel. At the end of the day, does it really matter?

Maybe i should just take a break from questioning and i should sit more "lightly".

It looks like you found a perfect answer though

Gassho,
Andoitz.

SatToday.

[Jishin]

What puzzles me is this : are the stupid anxious thoughts coming from anxiety, or is anxiety coming from them ?

Simple answer:

Put the thoughts in your hand. Do you see them? Now ask them why do they insist on making you anxious and there you have your answer!


[emoji3]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Amelia]

Sometimes we just get in the habit of being afraid or anxious after it has been triggered several times by the same thing. Habits can be broken

Gassho, sat today

[Jishin]

"...nothing to fear except fear itself". - Franklin D Roosevelt inauguration speech

Nice [emoji106] quote. [emoji3]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Ugrok]

Hello !

Excuse me Jishin but for me this quote is really a problem because it somehow implies that fear should be feared. Fearing fear is not a good position to be in ; people who get stuck in anxiety loops, such as the one i'm in nowadays, in fact, only fear their own fear ; for example you begin to fear your bodys reaction to fear, so it gives you more fear, so you get even more mind/body reactions, so you fear the fear even more, etc, etc. The only way to get out of this is to stop fearing the fear and the reaction it provokes. Which happens when somehow you completely, fully accept that you are fearful (more often than not this happens when you begin to get so bored with it that you stop caring). And you let it do its thing. It's the most simple thing and at the same time the most difficult.

For me, you should not fear the fear at all. If fear is here, it's here, just let it run its course... But the Roosevelt's quote somehow implies that fear should be feared.

Sorry for being so nitpicky, haha !

Gassho,

Uggy
Sat today

[Myosha]

Hello,

May we put the quote in context -

"So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is...fear itself — nameless, unreasoning, unjustified, unfitting terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. . . ."

President Roosevelt- first inaugural address


Gassho
Myosha
sat today

[Jishin]

Help with zazen : fear of the breathe stopping

http://epjournal.net/blog/2011/02/why-can’t-you-hold-your-breath-until-you’re-dead/

https://youtu.be/3DnzyxSFtNY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epEZ0rQna_E&sns=em

Some studies on deep free divers brains have been done and some changes have to the brain have been noted.

In the operating room respiratory drive can be suppressed by too much anesthesia to the point where patients stop breathing and breathing is assisted by ventilators. The anesthesiologist sometimes waits and sees if enough carbon dioxide builds up in the respiratory drive centers and this may restart the breathing apparatus on its own without assisted breathing.

People sometimes flatline after a heart attack but resume breathing when carbon dioxide sufficiently builds up as this again stimulates the respiratory drive.

The correct answer to this question and any question is always I don't know. The next best answer is a guess. Since life is but a big guess I wouldn't worry about it too much. Just chill out and don't forget to breathe. [emoji3]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Ugrok]

Damn at first i wondered, why is he showing me people dying of asphyxia, it's horrible ! I thought that this girl on the first video really died while holding her breathe ! Then i got that the purpose of your post was to inform me that you cannot, on purpose, not breathe.

I know that ! What i experience is an irrational thought, a kind of "what if next breathe doesnt happen" ?

I guess it's just anxiety doing its mind tricks, since nothing bad ever happened...

Uggy, sat today

[Jishin]

Help with zazen : fear of the breathe stopping

Damn at first i wondered, why is he showing me people dying of asphyxia, it's horrible ! I thought that this girl on the first video really died while holding her breathe ! Then i got that the purpose of your post was to inform me that you cannot, on purpose, not breathe.

I know that ! What i experience is an irrational thought, a kind of "what if next breathe doesnt happen" ?

I guess it's just anxiety doing its mind tricks, since nothing bad ever happened...

Uggy, sat today

She could have died on that day. Hard to say. The video is kind of ambiguous on this point. Anyway, lets have tea. [emoji3]

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kyonin]

Hi Ugrok,

When we sit zazen, we reduce all muscle movement and metabolism slows down, thus the body needs less air. The deeper your experience is, the less air you need up to the point that breathing becomes so tiny and seems fragile... even with no-breathing spaces. It's perfectly normal.

If you get anxious, you can move a little and you'll see how breathing gets normal.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Oheso]

sometimes during meditation my respiration slows down so much there are periods I almost feel I don't need to "work the bellows" anymore, that just keeping the air passage open is enough for the oxygen/ carbon dioxide exchange to take place at a sufficient rate without engaging the diaphragm, like Kyonin's no-breathing spaces.

gassho, O

today sat

[Rich]

Just for fun do a long and complete exhalation. It's like dying. But at some point the inhalation appears. It's like being born again. You don't control this. The delusion of control creates anxiety because it is false. The great thing about zazen is that you are being with the anxiety. And the being with, the acceptance, dissolves it.

Sat today

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Ugrok]

Hello,

Yeah, i found what you just said to be really true. Also thought about what Joko says in one of her books, something like, "one second you're there, the next you're dead. Which one is important ?"

Thanks again for all the answers.

Gassho,

Uggy, sat today (and still breathing !)