Have you ever questioned yourself if all you think makes of you just another parrot?

[Jundo]

I came across a section of "Realizing Genjokoan" by Shohaku Okumura, that seems to answer this question. It goes: "...Human thought has existed only a fraction as long as the earth and sun. Although we usually place great importance on what we think, our thinking cannot change the vast reality of all beings. We may think we are the most important elements of this life, but in reality we are all just tiny parts of the universe. Each one of us is a collection of causes and conditions, products of the coevolution of life and the earth." He goes on to describe how he is a product of having grown up in Japan, and how as humans we take so many years to grow and develop and are products of all that support and care. Then he says, "Each of us is connected to all past, present, and future beings in the entire universe. This is not a mysterious truth that can only be attained through some special spiritual intuition, trance, or other extraordinary mental condition. This is a very simple, plain reality we can understand rationally, yet we lose sight of it because we cling to words and concepts, separating ourselves from reality with discriminating thoughts."

I think that says it very well... of course we are products of our surroundings, but that does not change the non-debatable fact that we are still a part of a whole, continuing from inconceivably long ago to infinitely far in the future. There's nothing to look for, because there we are

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday

I would simply add that, no only are we "a part of the whole", we are the whole wholly. The drop of sea water is not just a part of the sea, but is the sea. The mountain stone or tree is not just a part of the mountain, but is the mountain mountaining. We are a manifestation in a particular place and time, and particular flowing conditions, of the whole shebang. Just depends how one comes to experience and bind or unbind who we are via those thoughts.

For more on this alternative way of defining and experience who and what we are, there is this recent discussion ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?14820-Observable-Universe-contains-ten-times-more-galaxies&p=187717&viewfull=1#post187717

But don't just "parrot" this fact (although the parrot is precisely the sky come to life!). Uncage the mind, and taste and embody oneself in Zazen.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jakuden]

Thank you, Jundo.
Gassho
Jakuden
SatToday


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[Ongen]

Thank you for this thread.
Many times I think things like that. Many times questions come up. Most of the time , to me, Just Sit is the best answer. Not the casual just sit, but the heartfelt Just Sit.
Gassho
Ongen

Sat Today

[Kyosei]

Hi friends.

Thank you so much for your responses.

I would like to thank every one of you separately, but there's no separation.

I beg you sorry because language can be a barrier sometimes, when we are trying to convey abstract ideas, feelings...personally, I feel I have a great lack of vocabulary and so I have to try to "describe" ideas using analogies, words that don't express what I'm trying to convey the better way...

Often it is good, because as here in Brasil we say: "I shot what I saw and hitted what I didn't see" and you bring me all this knowledge; I feel very grateful for the generosity showed in this Sangha.

Jundo, thanks for your advice(s) as always.

Shugen and Shingen, Gassho.

Jishin, thank you very much for this text - I didn't know it. Gonna add to my "reading list". Just looking the first verses seems to me this is "gold".

Daizan, gassho.

FaithMoon, thank you my friend - I think that was the "core" of the question I posed.

Jakuden, you're a very intelligent woman, and I can relate this text about Genjokoan you put here to another one about the "center of the universe" explained by a mathematician, an article you posted in a topic not long ago; "Realizing Genjokoan" is a book I want to read, too.

Ongen, thanks.

Thank you so much, again. A deep bow to every one of you,

and

Gassho

Marcos

#SatToday

[Kyonin]

What does vanilla tastes like?

You can write a super long book describing the taste, but you will only realize the flavor until you taste it.

The dharma can be described with a million words. Or with just a long silence.

You have to sit in silence to know how it tastes like.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jakuden]

Ha! Thanks Marcos, of course my replies were all based on what scientific study has backed up for us, but Kyonin is right--even that can't describe the taste of vanilla.

Gassho,
Jakuden
SatToday

[Risho]

What does vanilla tastes like?

Kyonin, I don't know what it is about the way the dharma comes to me, but this sort of hit me unexpectedly. You have this way of stating stuff, I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but sometimes you say something I needed to hear but didn't realize I needed it.

Similarly, Marcos asked this question, and I didn't even know I had it, but I had it.

At first, I thought yeah that's pretty obvious. Then I was joking around to myself (keep in mind this is my mind theatre at work - which is pretty insane. lol), "well, I can define vanilla.... it's not chocolate"

And by being a smartass, I realized that is a koan pattern! It's like in the koans, the master so and so says, "Hey tell me what you think about this or that?" and then one of the adepts says, "it's not bla bla bla". A famous one that I can think of right now is from Fukanzazengi, and this time I wasn't lazy and looked it up. lol

It's on Josho Pat Phelan's site: http://www.chzc.org/pat50.htm

This refers to a dialogue between Huai-rang and his teacher, the Sixth Ancestor, Hui Neng, or Daikan Eno Daiosho. After Huai-rang had already been practicing for some time, and his practice was fairly mature, he met Hui Neng. During their first meeting, Hui Neng asked, "Where are you from?" Huai-rang replied, "From Mt. Song." Hui Neng asked, "Who is it that thus comes?" referring to original nature. But Huai-rang didn’t have a response, and he continued practicing for eight years, when one day he had an insight. He went to Hui Neng to respond to the question, "Who is it that thus comes? saying, "Speaking about it won’t hit the mark." (or any explanation misses it.) Hui Neng then asked, If so, is there practice and enlightenment? Or "Is ... (original nature) contingent upon practice and realization? And Huai-rang replied, "It is not that there is no practice and realization, it’s just that they cannot be defiled." In Zen the word "defiled" refers to duality, so this means that practice and enlightenment aren’t stained by dualistic separation. Hui Neng has the last word saying, "It’s just this non-defilement (or non-duality of practice and enlightenment) that all buddha ancestors maintain.

It's not that saying something is not something is necessarily negative, it's that "THIS" is so big something cannot contain it.

So I'm probably doing a bad job of this, but my point is thank you Kyonin!

Anyways, to echo everyone, words get tiring, much easier to just experience. lol

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

[Kyonin]

Hi Risho.

Glad I can be of service

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday