Zazen and Running

[Longdog]

Re: Zazen and Running

Been doing 2.5 hours pram pushing kinhin today round the lanes where I live. Longest time I've been on my feet in 2 years and felt (and still does) like I'd done a marathon (but no where near ) Been sea kayaking lately a few times too as it's been like a millpond, paddling kinhin, really good for focusing on good efficient technique (not that mine is).

The opportunites seem endless As did the walk :lol:

[Shindo]

Re: Zazen and Running

Ahh - Phillip - mea culpa ops: , I will just remove my foot from my mouth. I wish you the very best on your ultramarathon. I hope you have a good team looking after you - who pace you & make you eat & drink. My friend was in a bad way because (a) he had run a 100 miles, but (b) he didn't keep hydrating himself once he had finished the race. Anyway - the very best (& your mad )

Longdog - you'll be sore in the morning & sea kayaking - a beautiful hobby

Cheers

Jools

[Steve]

Re: Zazen and Running

Longdog: I kayak also. Thanks for bringing boating up in this discussion. I find nothing is like the feeling when you hit the correct stroke and get the notion that you are gliding above the water. As to technique, I was recently taught that I have been using almost twice as many strokes as I should be...My instructor showed me that the key is to allow the boat to glide longer. We raced, counting strokes, he was much farther ahead without using a power stroke, using about 60% of the number of strokes I was counting. He demonstrated that the action of dipping the paddle retards forward momentum. The trouble is teaching yourself to wait between strokes, and learn to glide.

Jools: When I am on the water, I get the same sensations as you describe in running. I can only describe the rhythm that I slip into as mesmerizing. When I am gliding across the water on the lake in the middle of the night or very early morning, when the water is like a glass mirror...I get a moment when I am experiencing what I have heard others describe as "the realization of the reality of a moment"...what a former physics professor told me was impossible...being able to know both position and speed simultaneously.

Hmm...I had posted a response to Harry's thread earlier about "just sitting". Maybe one of the problems of the answer "just sit" is the fact that we are physical creatures. There are many passionate thoughts here in this thread about the core joy that comes from experiencing the correct movement of the body...which could be interpreted to mean that mind and body are also in harmony when engaged in such pursuits.

By the by, I also get the same sensation when I am driving and in tune with a particular country road. A true sense of Here. And Now.

Sport is not a multi-billion dollar industry by an accident of marketing...It taps into something core to our being.

Steve

[Shindo]

Re: Zazen and Running

Hi Steve (& welcome )

I recognise the experience you describe - its rare for me to experience that moment of clarity, but when I do that second of recognition makes it disappear :?
Like grasping a soap bubble.

I have heard modern pyschology call this being in the "flow".

Kind regards

Jools

[ChaosWithin]

Re: Zazen and Running

I know when I run, that I concentrate on my breath. If I don't, I start to breathe too fast, then I only run maybe half as well. Just the concentration alone on breathing, tends to make me feel better if i was down about something earlier.
I don't know much, but it would seem this is one reason why running is zazen. Correct me if i'm wrong, though, I'm still learning. Internet is slow today so i can't see any more vids on the blog, for now. :roll:

[Shindo]

Re: Zazen and Running

Hi CW

No I think you are right, there are many simularities between Zazen & running - mainly the discomfort. But zazen is "just sitting" and running is well "just running".

Kind regards

Jools

[Undo]

Re: Zazen and Running

I finished my race on Sunday, 18:01:59 after it all began. I found it very hard to get my head relaxed with "just running" for quite a few hours. Thoughts were a constant, how is the back pack? Is it rubbing anywhere? Do I have enough water? Where is that energy bar? How did that rock effect my foot? Am I going too fast/slow? et cetera.

Strangely it was only when the tiredness and discomfort had kicked in towards the last 25k " just running" or "just walking" really kicked in. During the middle part of the race we had lots of rain and strong winds, sometimes over the tops of the mountains. At times it got a bit serious for some runners and so things needed to put into perspective. Towards the end thoughts like hill, puddle, slope, pain, breath, wind and everything else just became noticed. Each moment and each step was a step and moment. Lots to see and feel but just being there (if that makes sense?). Either way it helped with the discomfort, finish and enjoyment.

Anyway it's all over for me now. I'm looking forward to just running without training for a while. Think I might have to sit zazen in a chair for a few days though. ops:

all the best,

philip

P.S. thanks for the music downloads Will, they were good to take along

[Longdog]

Re: Zazen and Running

Congratulations Philip

[Ryumon]

Re: Zazen and Running

That's 18 hours??? How long was the race? A marathon, or longer?

I can't imagine running for 18 hours...

Kirk

[Jundo]

Re: Zazen and Running

I finished my race on Sunday, 18:01:59 after it all began. ...
all the best,

philip

P.S. thanks for the music downloads Will, they were good to take along

9 Bows in your direction. By coincidence, I just complete 18 hours on the sofa.

Wonderful achievement! (Achieved without achieving too!!)

Gassho, Jundo

[ChaosWithin]

Re: Zazen and Running

I can run for about half an hour, tops.... but I start getting tired at around half that time...
Meh, I've been slacking... :lol:

[Undo]

Re: Zazen and Running

I have heard that an advantage of endurance sports is a very bad memory. That way you forget how bad it was and keep going.
Probably some truth there.
kirkmc the race was 101k or a little under 63 miles. I didn't run the full distance and was at more of a shuffle towards the end.
not quite Mount Hiei monk style but enough for me.

Anyone else got an event planned?

[Alberto]

Re: Zazen and Running

I have heard that an advantage of endurance sports is a very bad memory. That way you forget how bad it was and keep going.
Probably some truth there.
kirkmc the race was 101k or a little under 63 miles. I didn't run the full distance and was at more of a shuffle towards the end.
not quite Mount Hiei monk style but enough for me.

Anyone else got an event planned?

A marathon in San Diego in 3 weeks. I called a marathon a Zanzenkai, but by that measure you did a full sesshin!

[Skye]

Re: Zazen and Running

I did a 10k trail run last weekend, that's about my limit right now. I'm still working on running the whole distance without walking, which is an interesting psychological battle when it feels like you can't possibly take another step or draw another breath. But you do.. and then go through it all over again...

[Shindo]

Re: Zazen and Running

Philip - well done mate. A fantastic achievement. Hopefully, now you have it out of your system you will never do it again When my Pal did the 100 miles - the 22 miles I paced were bad enough - quite insane to be running down scree slopes, with a torch on your head at 3am. The link for this years race is below if you are tempted.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/henk.vande ... ars100.htm

Phil - as you know you are going the sore for days, so lots of fluids, food & pain killers. Watch out for that post race dip in mood & lowered immune system - but I bet you know all of this - anyway heartfelt congratulations.

Skye - well done on your 10k - I hope it went well. Do you want to share a time?

Alberto - good luck on your full marathon

Heres the race I am doing next weekend - only 13 miles. Good distance to keep family & home life in balance http://www.plymouthhalfmarathon.co.uk/p ... pageid=500
Did my last long run tonight (1hr 35 minutes - approx 10/11 miles).

Kind regards

Jools