Zazen and Running

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  • Shindo
    Member
    • Mar 2008
    • 278

    Zazen and Running

    From a number of posts I can see that some of us at Treeleaf are runners. On Saturday afternoon I sat Zazenkai and then the next morning I went for a two hour run (2hrs 9 mins & 11 secs - to be precise - these things matter to runners :roll: ). As I plodded through the streets, on that early Sunday morning , out into the countryside, along the river and back up that big hill (which defeated me at 1hr and 54 mins ), I was struck by the simularities between the two experiences, i.e:

    - the time it takes to settle into ones stride
    - the feelings of elation (oh - this is great - out into the fresh air, time to myself)
    - the feelings of despair (oh - bloody hell, another hour to go and I feel dreadful)
    - the persistent thoughts that run around in my head (what is this pain in my right side?)
    - witnessing the beauty of the world (cheerful fellow runners, nature, birdsong, the smell of wild garlic in the woods)
    - witnessing the grottyness of the world (traffic, noise, dogs mess, rubbish)
    - and best of all stopping, that wonderful afterglow of no longer having to run or sit .

    Anyway - just noodling.

    Best wishes

    Jools

    ps - I will let you know my half marathon time at the end of the month - anything under two hours would be good :wink:
    [color=#404040:301177ix]"[i:301177ix]I come to realize that mind is no other than mountains and rivers and the great wide earth, the sun and the moon and star[/i:301177ix]s". - [b:301177ix]Dogen[/b:301177ix][/color:301177ix]
  • will
    Member
    • Jun 2007
    • 2331

    #2
    Re: Zazen and Running

    Anyway - just noodling.
    Ok. No problem. Don't hurt yourself.


    G,W
    [size=85:z6oilzbt]
    To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
    To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
    To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
    To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
    [/size:z6oilzbt]

    Comment

    • Skye
      Member
      • Feb 2008
      • 234

      #3
      Re: Zazen and Running

      Agreed, the similarities are striking!

      There's also the whole issue of ignoring but not ignoring pain - you have to know when your body is just complaining, and when you're going to do damage if you keep going, just like when you're sitting. I've had to learn to be a lot nicer to my knees by doing more stretching and warm up for both activities.

      Plus if I fixate on the finish, it seems to be a lot harder than if I just run while I'm running and finish when I finish.

      Good luck with that half marathon!! I've got my second 10k of the season on Saturday, I'm trying to break the one hour barrier.

      Skye
      Even on one blade of grass / the cool breeze / lingers - Issa

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      • Glenn

        #4
        Re: Zazen and Running

        I've just started running myself and also see some of the similarities, although the thoughts that came to my mind mostly were, "Does my 8 year old daughter and running partner know CPR?" :wink:

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        • Jundo
          Treeleaf Founder and Priest
          • Apr 2006
          • 40354

          #5
          Re: Zazen and Running

          Hi,

          Nishijima Roshi told me in a video interview on his life that I did (and have around here somewhere and need to post) that he was a runner as a young man in school, that he finds the balance in running ... just running to run with clear mind ... to be much the same as Zazen. This was this inspiration for his description of Zazen as a philosophy of "action" and balance.

          I suppose that Zazen is sitting still running.

          Gassho, Jundo
          ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

          Comment

          • Aswini
            Member
            • Apr 2008
            • 108

            #6
            Re: Zazen and Running

            not soto, but it reminds me of a story i read long ago of the tendai marathon monks.

            http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2004/s1196617.htm

            http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/content/2004/s1199164.htm

            http://www.lehigh.edu/~dmd1/holly.html

            Comment

            • will
              Member
              • Jun 2007
              • 2331

              #7
              Re: Zazen and Running

              GLenn
              Does my 8 year old daughter and running partner know CPR?"
              :lol:
              :lol:
              [size=85:z6oilzbt]
              To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
              To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
              To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
              To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
              [/size:z6oilzbt]

              Comment

              • Skye
                Member
                • Feb 2008
                • 234

                #8
                Re: Zazen and Running

                Jools, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on "zoning out" during running. I find that my mind sometimes drifts off while I'm plodding along, and its kind of nice to escape for a while. I can't decide if its a good or a bad thing, or if it even matters as long as I'm still moving forward...

                Just did a 7k along the seawall here, lovely sunset and lots of people out. One of the warmest nights yet, maybe Spring is finally here?

                Skye
                Even on one blade of grass / the cool breeze / lingers - Issa

                Comment

                • Alberto
                  Member
                  • Apr 2008
                  • 78

                  #9
                  Re: Zazen and Running

                  Sign me up on the runners list. I call it power kinhin, and as far as I'm concerned a marathon counts as a Zazenkai (it takes me that long!) It's not like I drink Gatorade from Oryoki bowls, but running is a great form of meditation: simple, requires mindfulness, demands earnest effort regardless of your mood or distractions, and you can't shift blame as it is your practice and yours alone.

                  Comment

                  • Undo
                    Member
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 495

                    #10
                    Re: Zazen and Running

                    Hello,
                    I'm plankton and I'm a runner :?
                    I enjoy running (well more of a slow jog to be honest). Unfortunately so much so that I have been know to get a bit of cabin fever if I don´t get out for a while. Not good for attachments (or my wife). There is also that runner´s high to be careful of.

                    Saying that, I do agree with a lot of the comments made. Some of the aspects I find simpler in zazen are more complicated with running and the other way round. I have found that both have helped each other and so become more balanced in sitting or running.
                    (I'm not sure how it would work in the Zen Hall. Maybe we could get head cams and run in small circles for a few hours? )

                    All the best to everyone with races coming up and "break a leg".

                    philip

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                    • will
                      Member
                      • Jun 2007
                      • 2331

                      #11
                      Re: Zazen and Running

                      Maybe we could get head cams and run in small circles for a few hours?
                      In some traditions in Soto (known as Cao Dong in China) they do run around the Dharma hall instead of the slow walk.

                      Apprently, the place where Dogen had a great awakening here in China, they jog or do a fast walk and have some complicated ceremonies done quickly.

                      G,W
                      [size=85:z6oilzbt]
                      To save all sentient beings, though beings are numberless.
                      To penetrate reality, though reality is boundless.
                      To transform all delusion, though delusions are immeasurable.
                      To attain the enlightened way, a way non-attainable.
                      [/size:z6oilzbt]

                      Comment

                      • Shindo
                        Member
                        • Mar 2008
                        • 278

                        #12
                        Re: Zazen and Running

                        Hi Guys

                        sorry for the delay in posting - busy at work and home.

                        Will: & maybe Dogen was a proto jogger !!

                        Skye: good luck with the run & as for "zoning out", yes I to do that on occasion - normally when listening to music. Sometimes running can be so unpleasant that it is good to escape. Ran tonight - 35 mins - lovely sunny evening

                        Glen: your daughter doesn't need to know CPR - just a sharp stick to prod you with

                        Aswini: fearsome monks & I felt a little sad that they were so driven

                        Jundo:
                        just running to run with clear mind
                        - funny, I often run to clear my mind.

                        Al: thank you. Yes, I take your point. I often run to escape & with weight training you need to be in the present

                        Alberto: Too right, when you are grinding up those hills, far from home, it is only self determination or a mobile phone that will get you home. :P

                        Philip: Good luck with you big run coming up. I guess running (like zazen) can be termed as a healthy addiction.

                        I helped a friend run 100 miles last year (time 23hrs 45 mins). I only ran 22 miles (in two 11 mile stages), but it was a horrible off road course & running at night through woods & down rocky hills is really grotty. By the end of the race this chap was in a really bad way - never again.

                        Thanks again everyone & happy plodding

                        Jools
                        [color=#404040:301177ix]"[i:301177ix]I come to realize that mind is no other than mountains and rivers and the great wide earth, the sun and the moon and star[/i:301177ix]s". - [b:301177ix]Dogen[/b:301177ix][/color:301177ix]

                        Comment

                        • CinnamonGal
                          Member
                          • Apr 2008
                          • 195

                          #13
                          Re: Zazen and Running

                          Interesting observations Jools and everyone!

                          I can relate to how it takes time to settle into it before "the noise" disappear and the minds calms down.

                          I am not much of a runner but sometimes I ride my bike to the forest as fast as I can and then go for a joggin tour. Every time I hope it will be peaceful and serene but soon discover SO many distractions out there! Sometimes I see an animal or a bird but most of the time the beautiful flowers (the white and blue ones that come out when the snow melts), pine and birch tress and moss on the rocks along the path that is covered with birch bark. I decide not to stop for them and come back for a walk another time but often find myslef jogging on place in front of a fantastic tree trunk, not even realisiung I am doing that (very much like zazen indeed)! :wink: Then I" wake up" and go further :-).

                          I love all about it: the pain in the muscles when the season starts and the body is not used to running yet, the trees around, the sun dancing between the branches of the trees, the sound of my own breathing, the sound of the wind in the tree crowns, the painful bike ride back home when it seems there is no energy left to put the helmet on and hit the road and I just wish someone sent a helicopter to bring me back home.

                          Good luck to all you, jogging enthusiasts !

                          Gassho,

                          Irina
                          http://appropriteresponse.wordpress.com

                          Comment

                          • Shindo
                            Member
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 278

                            #14
                            Re: Zazen and Running

                            Hi Irina

                            lovely post - thank you: Good luck with your waking cycling .

                            Best wishes

                            Jools
                            [color=#404040:301177ix]"[i:301177ix]I come to realize that mind is no other than mountains and rivers and the great wide earth, the sun and the moon and star[/i:301177ix]s". - [b:301177ix]Dogen[/b:301177ix][/color:301177ix]

                            Comment

                            • Undo
                              Member
                              • Jun 2007
                              • 495

                              #15
                              Re: Zazen and Running

                              running at night through woods & down rocky hills is really grotty. By the end of the race this chap was in a really bad way - never again
                              Great I´ll try and remember that Sat night :shock:













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