multicultural Zen

[Sozan]

Treeleaf Sangha is a multicultural Zen Buddhist Community in which people of all socio-economic classes, nationalities, races, ages, creeds, genders, sexual orientation and identification, and physical abilities discover shared humanity by direct experience of one anothers’ lives. We are open to all. We commit ourselves to cultivating a practice in diversity and multiculturalism by incorporating into our practice the dissolving of all barriers that perpetuate the suffering of separation, prejudice, and discrimination. We intend to expand and develop our awareness of the ways we are conditioned to separate ourselves by socioeconomic class, nationality, race, age, creed, gender, sexual orientation, physical ability and other forms of identity.

I wonder why, in light of this mission statement on the Home page, we continue with so many Japanese forms. Even as calcified an organization as the Roman Catholic Church, shed Latin in its litergy long ago. Any thoughts?

Gassho,
Sozan

s@2day

[Geika]

Because Soto style Zen Buddhism is from Japan, and after a certain point of taking practices away, you no longer have Soto style practice.

I should also add that we DO chant in English. Most American Sanghas I know of chant in Japanese. I would say that's one of the ways we make it contemporary.

Gassho, sat today

[Byrne]

There are many Japanese style things at Treeleaf. There are infinitely more personal choices at Treeleaf. Jundo has maintained a very firm but open minded perspective on these matters, and that open mindedness (or more complete perspective) is freely offered as well.

Gassho

Sat Today

[Risho]

Man it sounds like a damned lawyer wrote that mission statement lol

I feel what you are saying; the way in which soto zen expresses itself has japanese tints to it because its japanese lol

At the same time its very relevant to all cultures and is American, Mexican, Swedish, etc. Im not into cultural mimicry either; Ive also always have had a love affair with Japanese culture but thats another story.

That being said were here, all of us, to practice zen. And its all of our responsibility to make it relevant in our lives. Now I mean if you dont like zen then its not but I mean if youve taken the precepts then its really up to you to live this practice. And even the Buddha said that each of us need to do this; we have to investigate these things for ourselves.

Im not a big fan of all cultural traditions but if you think about the Buddhist teachings from India, China, kKorea Vietnam, japan, America and countless other places where Zen and Buddhism has planted roots, the dharma or discoveries are culturally agnostic. They are at the same time of a specific time and place but also express a timeless feature or features of being human.

On one hand for example the bodhisattva vows sprung forth out of Huineng's culture, cultural attitude on zen, but to say that those vows are too Chinese is ludicrous- if you get to the heart of what they are saying.

You could say well its all cultural trapping except for sitting but seated meditation is from the BC/BCE days (for the whole foods crowd -just kidding) so why not get rid of that too. Its anextreme example but my point (and to echo Jundo) is that you dont want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

At the same time what you are pointing to is internalizing this, making this practice your own and that is important.

I think we are pioneers to some extent. Buddhism is new to the West, historically speaking. I think the more it sticks around the more westernized it will become, but we have to allow that to happen naturally, allow it to bloom while being careful not to trim away too much too soon.

Again I think we are pioneers and in a very advantageous position in the West because this is a Judeo Christian culture so to really practice here we need to come to terms with what our practice means to us. At the same time I think we find many challenges finding our groove in practice that fits with our cultural viewpoint. Sometimes I get frustrated like I dont get this! But thats the challenge; bringing this to fruition in my life is absolutely a challenge but when I get frustrated or feel like I cant relate to certain practices I think about what brings me here, what things do resonate, are helpful; why do I practice?

Ive had so many times Ive felt like quitting but Ive read that this is something that practitioners face. You just dont feel like sitting anymore and thats fine; just go sit. When things seem foreign or discouraging the basics bring me back and inspire me: the four noble truths/tasks, the precepts, genjokoan, etc

Although these discoveries come from different times and cultures they hit to the core of the human experience. I think the more I hang around the less and less esoteric and more meaningful things become but I really really understand where you are coming from

Gassho

Risho
-sattoday

[Jundo]

Ah ... another chance to repost the "Turning Japanese" essay ... (It even mentions Oryoki in there and we will be restarting that beautiful art soon) ...


======================================

This practice is not limited to any place or time ... we drop all thought of place and time. It certainly is not Indian, Chinese, Japanese, French or American. But, of course, we live in place and time, so as Buddhism traveled over the centuries from India to China, Japan, Korea and other places, it naturally became very Indian/Chinese/Japanese/Korean etc.

But what of the cultural trappings?

Must we bow, ring bells, chant (in Japanese, no less), wear traditional robes, have Buddha Statues, burn incense? ... All that stuff besides Zazen. Are they necessary to our Practice?


No, not at all!


We don't need anything other than Zazen, any of those trappings. In fact, they are no big deal, of no importance, when we drop all viewpoints in sitting Zazen.

On the other hand, we have to do something, to greet each other somehow, read some words, dress some way. Why not do such things? As I often say, for example, we have to do something with our hands when practicing walking Zazen ... why not hold them in Shashu (I mean, better than sticking 'em in your pockets)? What is more, wearing certain special clothes and holding one's hands with a certain formality, placing a statue and burning incense can all work as points of focus to remind us of the specialness of this moment and Practice (no problem so long as we also learn the lesson that all the so-called "mundane" instants of life, great and small, are special moments, each a "sacred ceremony" in its way, from taking a bath to making a peanut butter sandwich for the kids).

As well, there are parts of our practice which we do BECAUSE we resist (for example, when visiting a temple for Retreat, I usually put my heart fully into ceremonies and arcane rituals BECAUSE I resist and think some of it silly or old fashioned). Ask yourself where that kind of resistance is to be found (here's a clue, and it is right behind your own eyes).

What is more, there is method to the madness, and many (not all) customs have centuries of time tested benefits ... embody subtle perspectives ... that support and nurture Zazen Practice at the core. Many parts of our Practice, though "exotic", are worth keeping, even if they strike someone as strange at first. Bowing, statues, rigid decorum in the Zen Hall and, yes, weird talks about Koans and arcane ceremonies all fit in that category. They may seem like unnecessary "Japanese" or "Esoteric" elements at first, until you understand the role they serve. I have given talks on all these things recently, for example ... the humility and wholeness of Bowing.

Many aspects of tradition can be seen in new ways when the barriers of the mind are knocked down. Thus, for example, the Kesa, the Buddha's Robes ... though just cloth ... can be seen to cover and enfold the whole universe, laughter, cries of pain, old age, becoming and fading away ... life ...

On the other hand again, it is okay to abandon or reject many practices. However, KNOW very well what you are rejecting before you reject it.

Absorb what is useful and discard the rest. For example, I think Oryoki [formal meal ritual] is a great practice (on pouring onself in all to find oneself), and worth keeping ... Same for bowing.

When tasted as such ... every action and gesture in this life is Sacred and Magical when experienced as such, from changing a baby diaper to cooking dinner to chanting the Heart Sutra. So, why not Chant as well as the rest?

Many ways could be substituted and provide much the same ... for example, one can lose and find oneself in Square Dancing or Pizza baking or shoe polishing, and encounter much the same sacred feel, if approaching each with the correct Zenny mindset I suppose (should we create a Treeleaf Dharma Square Dance Pizza Baking Shoe Polishing Group?)

Some things I keep out of respect for TRADITION [the robes, the ways of doing some ceremonies]. It is important to keep ties to where we come from. Some things also have a special symbolic meaning if you look into them, so worth keeping [for example, a Rakusu]

But other stuff, no need to keep: For example, I usually avoid to chant in Japanese or Chinese [except once in awhile, out of respect for tradition]. Tatami mats and Paper screens have nothing to do with Zen practice particularly [but I happen to live in an old Japanese building, so ... well, tatami and paper screens!} Some things I think are just dumb (except symbolically), like the Kyosaku stick. Incense is great, until it was recently shown to cause cancer. Many beliefs of Buddhism are rather superstitious things that were picked up here and there. I abandon many of those.

The outer wrap of Zen Buddhism is changing greatly as it moves West. The greater emphasis on lay practice over monastics, the greater democracy in what was a feudal institution (arising in societies where the teacher's word was law ... oh, those were the days! ), giving the boot to a lot of magico-supersticio hocus-pocus bunkum, the equal place of women ... heck, the use of the internet to bring teachings that were once the preserve of an elite few into everyone's living room.Those are good and great changes to the outer wrapping (you can read about them in books like this one (author interview here: http://atheism.about.com/library/boo...olemanChat.htm). The coreless core, however, remains unchanged.

Do not throw out the Baby Buddha with the bath water. Many completely "Japanese" practices which seem silly at first are worth keeping. ...

... other things, like some of the arcane incense, bell & drum filled rituals, take 'em or leave 'em.

(that being said ... many a Soto Priest will testify to the power of those incense, bell and drum filled rituals ... )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgekmOqCFTU

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Anshu Bryson]

I wonder why, in light of this mission statement on the Home page, we continue with so many Japanese forms. Even as calcified an organization as the Roman Catholic Church, shed Latin in its litergy long ago. Any thoughts?

Gassho,
Sozan

s@2day

Regarding the language of liturgy, when we chant a sutra 'in Japanese', we're not actually chanting in 'Japanese' at all, but are chanting using a Japanese reading of Chinese characters, with no associated Japanese 'grammar' in between... So, the Japanese have not even translated the sutras into Japanese yet (!), but we seem to be in a hurry to have English versions of everything. While it is (of course!) helpful to actually know what you are reading/chanting (!), I am happy to chant the Sino-Japanese version knowing that I understand the 'story' in my own language. In light of 'multiculturalism', if I chant in English, non-English speakers won't know what I'm saying. Having one 'common language' is actually helpful in this case...

Using the traditional forms actually allows for more than just English speakers to become involved. Using a sporting analogy, baseball terms in Japan are largely English; it is the 'common language' of that sport. I am a karate practitioner, we use Japanese terminology so that everyone knows what everyone else is talking about. It is simply the lingua franca of that practice worldwide.

While the Church indeed did away with Latin, it did not do this overnight. Zen is still in its 'early days' in the West. Originally, the use of Latin in the Church kept knowledge and understanding within a small power group. I think that we can be confident nowadays with Zen practice that, regardless of the language of our liturgy, the meaning is freely available in most languages. As Jundo suggests above, changes will necessarily be gradual and must be organic rather than forced.

Some wise words on this from Okumura Shohaku Roshi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMtb_T5cq_U

Gassho,
Anshu

-sat today-

[Sozan]

Thank you all for your insights. My question was regarding form, not content. Ritual can be important to lead us into a 'sacred' place to aid our practice. This may be more important for us, as we have no communal brick and mortar palce to do that. I guess I can wait for the change in forms. Just not that important.

Deep Bows to all.
Gassho,
Sozan

s@2day

[Washin]

Ive had so many times Ive felt like quitting but Ive read that this is something that practitioners face. You just dont feel like sitting anymore and thats fine; just go sit. When things seem foreign or discouraging the basics bring me back and inspire me: the four noble truths/tasks, the precepts, genjokoan, etc

Thank you. Same here.

Gassho
Washin
sat-today

[Jundo]

I like Sozan's wait and see attitude about what Zen will become in the West. Every Buddhist Sangha in the West is an experiment in trying to answer that question, from those who maintain very closely the ways of Asia (sometimes more than even they do in Asia!!), to those who strip it all away. Let's see what happens.

A funny thing is that I sometimes get comments that we at Treeleaf are too Japanese, but at other times I get comments that we are not Japanese enough! (Mr. K. has said that to me a few times recently and implied that only Japanese people truly understand this stuff. Hmmm. ). Some say we chant in Chinese-Japanese too much, some want more ... some want more t-shirts, some want more robes. Sometimes traditional Buddhists comments that this place is way too liberal, with our de-emphasis of certain rituals, mythic beliefs and doctrines such as the mechanical workings of Karma and extremely specific descriptions of post-mortum rebirth as found in some corners of traditional Buddhism. Other folks tell me that we are much too traditional and conservative for their taste.

Can't win sometimes (beyond all "win" and "loss" of course). We catch it from all sides in the ten directions!

As my above "Turning Japanese" essay shows by its ambiguity, nothing is completely worthless or defensible or "one size fits all" and even the most obscure beliefs and rituals have great meaning and power in some ways to somebody.

Losing our Japaneseness is not all a good thing. If I may compare Japanese Zen to the martial arts, this is a video of our Yugen's karate Sensei from Japan (Okinawa actually, Japan but not) ... what grace, power in his traditional forms ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXGh7ltxuyI

Well, if we Westernize too fast, maybe we will end up with the Zen equivalent of this: Perhaps these guys (women too) win in brute killing efficiency, but something tells me that the philosophy of the martial arts has been lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe2YF56JklQ

Gassho, J

PS - More about Yugen's Karate here. I believe he is now 8th Dan in that school, one of their main teachers in America.

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?12781-Congratulations-to-Yugen-Promoted-to-7th-Dan-Black-Belt-in-Uechi-Ryu-Karate-Do

[Risho]

The martial arts analogy is spot on! You sort of want both - you want the reverence for life, the no-mind, the focus, discipline, ethics, but you also need the ability to kick ass when you have to but only in defense.

I've always loved Chuck Norris because you know he's a badass but he's a corny good guy. lol

It also reminds me of the phenomenal trilogy: called "The Samurai Trilogy" with Toshiro Mifune. If you've never seen Toshiro Mifune you've never seen a samurai movie. He starts out with a lot of fighting spirit, but he ends up just being a full bodhisattva, a full human being. It's a brilliant film.

Also, side note, Zatoichi - The Blind Swordsman (with Takeshi Kitano) is another phenomenal, phenomenal movie that's in this vein of complete martial art badass but not brute. I guess there are a lot of these Zatoichi movies, but I've only seen the most recent one (I'm aware of in the States). But this movie is just so good, so good.

Gassho,

Risho
-sattoday

[Nindo]

BTW - The Catholic church has not entirely mothballed the Latin liturgy. Masses are still being sung or read in Latin. It happens to be the language great music was composed to, and I was lucky enough to regularly sing Latin choir masses for a few years in a major European cathedral. Latin is also still used in the monastic liturgy, and for special occasions in "regular" church. It is also the common ground for the international church. When my small hometown parish had visitors from the French partnership town, the mass was read in Latin, because that's what everybody could follow more or less.

Gassho
Nindo

[Jishin]

I wonder why, in light of this mission statement on the Home page, we continue with so many Japanese forms. Even as calcified an organization as the Roman Catholic Church, shed Latin in its litergy long ago. Any thoughts?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastical_Latin

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/07/nyregion/07latin.html

Gassho, Jishin, ST

[Yugen]

multicultural Zen

Hi all,
Jundo, thank you for the martial arts angle- I'm a bit red faced from the exposure, but thank you.

Toyama Sensei's form is lovely - so eloquent yet simple. He practiced into his early 80s and only recently passed. A remarkably humble and quiet man, yet his form was confident and realized, not arrogant or large.

The purpose of a belt is to hold up your trousers. Karate like zen is "good for nothing!"

Deep bows
Yugen


sat2day

[Rich]

The Zen tradition comes from China, Korea and Japan. Now it's becoming World Zen. Or maybe Earth Zen. I think unless you strip it down to the basics, it won't take off. For me the basics are sitting, bowing and chanting. The basic liturgy would be the heart and diamond sutras.

SAT today

[Jishin]

For me the basics are sitting... The basic liturgy would be the heart and diamond sutras.

Gassho, Jishin, ST