How to be a Buddhist and not be taken advantage of.

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40350

    #31
    Originally posted by GregJanL
    Jundo,

    The let x be x point seems to me to potentially conflict with only a narrow set of issues relating to nessesities.

    If I'm hungry for example I'd eat and want hunger to be satiated, literal thirst to be quenched. I see it as let whatever be short of my "personal" and "other" bare minimum well-being being impeded at which point action actually turns into a must if there are actions to take and only accept my lack of nessesities when stuck in some proverbial desert and accept the end approching, hopefully not retaining any reminant grasping at life nessesities when there are none after death should reincarnation be real and I cause another rebirth from the grasping.

    This is the best logical understanding I have thusfar as to how "nirvana with reminants"/life with body and nessesities remaining and "paranirvana"/death with complete nirvana and no further grasping.

    This view has settled into a steadiness that internal critique has found no holes in for a while and I'm curious if you have any input.

    Metta,
    Greg

    sattoday

    Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk
    Hi Greg,

    If I understand, the Buddha also ate and slept and "desired" to teach Buddhism and walk around India. Moderate, balanced, healthy desires are not usually the problem (assuming, of course, that one is not being starved unwillingly or on a desert island). It is really only excess and unhealthy, harmful desires that are the problem, causing greed and attachment, frustration, anger, jealousy, fear and the like.

    In that way, desires are much like fire ... in small quantities, well managed and well timed, fire provides warmth and heat to cook our food ... in excess it burns down the house or the whole forest.

    I happen to believe, by the way, that the Buddha's structure of his Sangha Community, including his recommendation to lay folks, met most of Maslow's basic needs ...

    By the way, psychologist Abraham Maslow has his famous pyramid of basic human needs which, when fulfilled, allow us to be "self-actualized" at the top.



    I have always felt that there is something to this. We all need basic food, shelter, safety and security, friendship, a sense of connection, etc. I believe that, since the Buddha's time, the "Buddhist Lifestyle" has been geared to fulfilling such needs. Also, we learn to keep excess needs and desires in check (for things we may hunger for, but which are ultimately harmful or far beyond what we truly need. An Oryoki eating bowl means to receive "just enough"). The peace I feel, even in the face of death, provides the ultimate sense of safety and security. A sense of "self-worth" comes both when we realize that there never was quite a "self" from the start, yet also that all little "selfs" of the world shine like jewels on a great chain, each their place in the sun. What Maslow described as the "self-actualization" at the peak of the pyramid (perhaps "non-self actualization" in Buddhist terms ) includes an "appreciation of solitude", but also "deeper personal relations with a few close friends and family members" ... a tendency "to view the world with a continual sense of appreciation, wonder and awe, yet even simple experiences continue to be a source of inspiration and pleasure" ... a heightened "sense of personal responsibility and ethics" ... and a tendency to "peak experiences, or moments of intense joy, wonder, awe and ecstasy. After these experiences, people feel inspired, strengthened, renewed or transformed".



    Self-actualization represents the growth of an individual toward fulfillment of the highest needs. And we are all capable of achieving it.


    I am not a psychologist, but I have always felt that there is something to this, and that Zen Practice points such way.
    Your story also reminded me of this old classic ... the tigers and the strawberry ...

    Educational Web site, designed for teachers, librarians, and students,explores the use of storytelling in the classroom to enhance speaking, listening, reading and writing skills.


    Gassho, J

    SatToday
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

    Comment

    • GregJanL
      Member
      • Jul 2015
      • 52

      #32
      Jundo,

      Seems fair enough, and I generally also have that nessesities pyramid in mind when I relate to life these days.

      The strawberry story is something I read before and could never quite "get" the point. It's really a wonderful point however, to be so graceful even in the most imminent peril of death is why I grew to see so much in teachings and practices that have no gross impact on anything in life, yet they do. The guy hanging off the cliff without hesitation absorbed himself in x no longer being able to be anything but x in that situation, his soon to come death and was able to enjoy his last moment fully eating a berry when there was nothing left to do rather then throwing a pointless life clinging fit when more life was as unrealistic as winning a big jackpot lottery many times over.

      It's a really inspiring story of clear sanity and composure that motivates me to continue doing myself the favor of taking buddhism seriously and really grow into the "sitting like a mountain" frame of existence in all my happenings.

      Thank you for continuing to host this online zendo, it is a enormous relief not having to sort through second and third hand online information. I might not be a mountain yet but I do feel I'm not a dry leaf getting blown around at the slightest wind anymore.

      Metta,
      Greg

      sattoday

      Sent from my SCH-R530M using Tapatalk
      “A fine line separates the weary recluse from the fearful hermit. Finer still is the line between hermit and bitter misanthrope.” - Dean Koontz

      Comment

      • Erik de Heiden
        Member
        • Jan 2015
        • 51

        #33
        I stand in line and another person seems to stand in his own line. The right line is only in my mind. If I become angry about this, then I am weakened.

        SAT2day
        Kind regards

        Erik

        Comment

        • Ryan379
          Member
          • Oct 2015
          • 64

          #34
          Originally posted by Erik de Heiden
          I stand in line and another person seems to stand in his own line. The right line is only in my mind. If I become angry about this, then I am weakened.

          SAT2day


          Gassho

          Ryan

          Sat Today
          Breathe...Relax...Let Go...

          Comment

          • Risho
            Member
            • May 2010
            • 3179

            #35
            I haven't posted much lately; I've been on vacation for the holidays, and I've been kind of laying low after Ango.

            So anyway, I feel compelled to post here even though I think Kokuu and Jundo really speaks to my heart. But I'm compelled. hahaha

            I'm compelled because I think we can either fall into the form or emptiness "sides". Even though Form is absolutely Emptiness and vice versa. And Form is Form and Emptiness is Emptiness, I don't think we always live with that, and I don't think we always speak to that insight and realization. And I think when we cling to Emptiness, it turns Zen into something its not, which is a passive accept things as they are - it can make it "heady", up in the clouds, etc; if we cling to Form - I think this is more my conventional approach to things before finding Zen: it's the opposite, we grasp at how we see things as the only way, solid, unchanging, etc. But if we transcend these, zen shows us how to live alive and engaged. It's real, living, it's not some passive "dead fish" philosophy. It's certainly extremely practical; it's right here!

            I should probably be posting this in the "Opening the Hand of Thought" but I think I find this compelling because I've been asking myself this type of question a lot. I think this question of "How to apply Buddhism to my life, marital problems...." is so important. Why did Bodhidharma come from the West? It's the same question. It's about how to make this practice real in my life. When Uchiyama Roshi talks about finding a true way to live. That's what this question is about to me also. So even though it seems a very innocuous question about how to deal with a real world situation using Buddhism, I think it gets to the core of practice; at least for me, this is one of the most important questions I ask myself -- I tend to ask myself this a lot after Ango for some reason.

            I have these ideals of Zen practice: Ryokan, Dogen, these heroes, these ideas of these people and how it was to live as a monk. Then I look at my life, and I feel like a failure. Yes, it's a weird pattern of thought and I'm sorry for rambling but this thread has opened this up. lol So anyway, I start resenting my practice because I don't know how to live like that. So I just have to drop that thought; they are inane thoughts from my ego. So that's my answer; practice is alive here, we need to figure out how to make it alive. So don't come at it like how do I do this as a Buddhist? Buddhist, or whatever label doesn't matter; just live in a genuine, true way. And I think practice is a compass pointing to that.

            So, anyway, right, the only line is in my mind. Lines, language, money are human creations in a way. So there is no line, the absolute. But we live in a world of form, where we use and create things to allow us to communicate, so those lines that are imagined are also very real. They point to things that are real anyway, things that allow us to interact with the universe and each other. As Dogen states, and I'm paraphrasing, you can't eat a painted rice cake, but those painted rice cakes can fulfill your hunger.

            I mean green light, red light, both are the same in the vastness of blah blah blah, but you better adhere to the rules of the road or someone will get hurt.

            Because it's not just emptiness. It's form too. Both are the same. So in the end, right, I mean it's just a line and someone cuts in front of you, just say something, and if the person is having a bad day or really wants to get "ahead", if that's important, I mean we're waiting for lunch meat; in the big scheme of things not a big deal.

            I think it's just important to remember, and this is just my personal experience/I'm just a newer sitter, that even though we drop all thoughts of going anywhere, although we drop all divisions, that does not mean passively lying down and living in la la land. To paraphrase Jundo, that dropping is a very, very powerful thing beyond emptiness and form. To sit without a goal is not zombie zen; it's "magic" for lack of a better word.

            We live in this world, so although (and to quote/paraphrase Dogen again from Nishijima/Cross translation of Genjokoan):

            As all things are Buddha-dharma, there are grocery store lines, lights and language and monetary systems, enlightened beings and fools.

            When the myriad dharmas are each not of the self, there are no lines or language or monetary systems.

            The Buddha’s truth is originally transcendent over abundance and scarcity, and so there are these things! There are these things. But perhaps experienced differently from this perspective.
            Happy New Year and Gassho,

            Risho
            -sattoday
            Last edited by Risho; 01-04-2016, 07:10 PM.
            Email: risho.treeleaf@gmail.com

            Comment

            • Kaishin
              Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 2322

              #36
              I agree with both Ryan and Risho. Ryan in that yes, ultimately this "should" thinking is meaningless, so we should let it go. But as Risho points out, we live in the phenomenal, relative world, so "shoulda" are important. Yes, cutting in line is trivial, but this line of "no consequence" thinking is a slippery slope that could lead to passivity in the face of more serious situations.

              So... I think we should realize what Ryan says, have a chuckle to ourselves for the ultimate pettiness of the issue, BUT then say, "Hey, buddy, there's a line here..."

              I wouldn't let it go, but again you can be assertive without being an asshole.

              -satToday

              P.s. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting someone
              Thanks,
              Kaishin (開心, Open Heart)
              Please take this layman's words with a grain of salt.

              Comment

              • Ryan379
                Member
                • Oct 2015
                • 64

                #37
                I agree with you Risho and Kaishin

                I feel the challenge is, as Risho says, how do we apply Zen and Buddhism to our lives? What is the best way to live in the world without becoming ensnared by forms or becoming lost in emptiness? How do we transcend both of these to live the middle way? How do we discern when it is best to let something go and when it is necessary to take action?

                My best guess is to follow the Precepts, sit Zazen, and understand the perfection of wisdom as best we can

                Gassho

                Ryan

                Sat Today
                Last edited by Ryan379; 01-05-2016, 12:40 PM.
                Breathe...Relax...Let Go...

                Comment

                • Kyonin
                  Treeleaf Priest / Engineer
                  • Oct 2010
                  • 6749

                  #38
                  Originally posted by Ryan379
                  I agree with you Risho and Kaishin

                  I feel the challenge is, as Risho says, how do we apply Zen and Buddhism to our lives? What is the best way to live in the world without becoming ensnared by forms or becoming lost in emptiness? How do we transcend both of these to live the middle way? How do we discern when it is best to let something go and when it is necessary to take action?

                  My best guess is to follow the Precepts, sit Zazen, and understand the perfection of wisdom as best we can

                  Gassho

                  Ryan

                  Sat Today
                  Hi all,

                  Yes, I think sitting zazen and taking refuge in the Triple Jewel and living by the precepts is how we get to be Buddhists in a world where abusive people seem to be more by the day.

                  But being a Buddhist doesn't mean we allow others to step on our backs. The way I see it, we must live our practice. We must be compassionate and giving all the time. But we also have to take care of ourselves, our families and jobs. All without being attached to desire.

                  It seems overwhelming at first, but the more we sit and read the dharma, the easier it gets as years go by. The thing is we can't push things or be in the urgency mind set.

                  Things will happen when they need to happen or when we are ready for them. Sometimes we also have to work hard for getting things done. But over all, this practice teaches us to be patient and diligent.

                  Gassho,

                  Kyonin
                  #SatToday
                  Hondō Kyōnin
                  奔道 協忍

                  Comment

                  • Ryan379
                    Member
                    • Oct 2015
                    • 64

                    #39
                    Thank you Kyonin

                    Just one more from me (promise!)

                    How can we best bring the Zazen mind from the cushion into our everyday lives? How best can we live a shikantaza life?

                    Edit: I found an answer from Jundo here: http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showt...ful-of-mindful

                    Gassho

                    Ryan

                    Sat Today
                    Last edited by Ryan379; 01-05-2016, 06:26 PM.
                    Breathe...Relax...Let Go...

                    Comment

                    • Jinyo
                      Member
                      • Jan 2012
                      • 1957

                      #40
                      Hi there,

                      just a thought,

                      it's really easy to confuse compassion with non-action - the slippery slope to relativism.

                      To be a caring human being (we don't need to stick the label 'Buddhist' on this) we need to be focused and attentive and carefully use our
                      energy to attend to situations that call for intervention. I probably might not bother about someone cutting in line though it would possibly inwardly irritate me.

                      When people are acting in a way that feels annoying to me - or really out of line with my value system, I try to check out with myself whether I don't
                      also act out the same sort of behaviour without consciously realising it - or at least have the same inner impulses that are just under tighter control. Invariably
                      I find that I do.

                      I then have to work on my irritation that if I can put work into trying to be a better human why can't others This is the slippery slope to being a pain in the
                      butt 'born again' I'm a really nice person thing !


                      None of the above leads to compassion or real tolerance. I would suggest that real compassion comes from accepting that even the worst acts that human beings
                      are capable of are primarily a statement about that individual's inner life - so the worse the act the sadder the statement.


                      We don't need to sink into relativism and we don't need to be overtly judgemental - we just need to cultivate wisdom and know when to take clear action and when to let something go.

                      It's a tall order.

                      Gassho

                      Willow

                      sat today
                      Last edited by Jinyo; 01-05-2016, 03:40 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Heisoku
                        Member
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 1338

                        #41
                        Hello all
                        Such a great discussion from a simple everyday event! It prompted memories of the time-pressed anger that used to arrive in me at the smallest infringement of MY (most important) world. I laugh and feel sorry for that person, since time and sitting has eroded all that feeling of importance of my world and ME.
                        So what changed...wasn't time or getting older. Well I did started sitting. And in daily sitting something did change. Not something you notice every day but something that drips and seeps, not into you but out. A letting go of mind stuff, while retaining nature stuff. Like that poem about plum blossoms, 'balding the head' and a 'hard cold rubbing the nostril'.
                        Where I am now is maybe a decade passed that angry fellow, who pushes into parking spaces, but I see the change. I can see the weather and the seasons, I feel the breeze in my face when I go to work and my mind has space for the people I meet, in whatever mood they are in. And I am grateful, and can actually smile, as this is a much 'greater' place to be. Just sit.
                        Gassho Heisoku
                        Sat today


                        Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
                        Heisoku 平 息
                        Every day is a journey, and the journey itself is home. (Basho)

                        Comment

                        Working...