How to be a Buddhist and not be taken advantage of.

[Eishuu]

I can really relate to things not being as they seem, as Shingen says. Quite a few times recently I have taken things personally, misinterpreted people's intentions, and got angry or upset - more to do with my mental state. And then it has turned out that whatever intent I had imagined wasn't really there - things were badly worded or people were busy or struggling.

I recently heard a story I found really useful and that I try to bring to mind when I am getting angry...I think it might have been in a Peter Matthiessen book or maybe it was on Treeleaf. Basically a man is out on a lake in a boat one morning, and another boat appears and starts heading towards him really fast. He gets really angry and starts shouting at the boat, standing up and shaking his fist at it. It smashes right into him and then he sees it is actually an empty boat. Whilst I probably don't appreciate the full depth of the story I do find it really helpful in letting go of anger.

I haven't studied Buddhist ethics for a while but from what I understand it is the emotion or motivation that is important...so the same action could be done but if it's coming from compassion and wisdom it's different to if it's coming from anger and delusion. I think maybe I need to brush up on this and read some zen books on ethics.

Gassho
Lucy
Sat today

[Kaishin]

I think Jishin is just kidding. Certainly "balls" have caused most of the problems in this world!

But his sentiment has truth. You can be assertive without being angry or aggressive. But some people are just naturally angry and aggressive. Lots of stories of angry Zen masters! Kodo Sawaki was certainly no pushovers. I'm sure he would have intimidated me.

So, I guess what I try to do is be assertive, but leave the anger behind as much as possible.

[Getchi]

Wow, this happens so often to me I cant even count.

We live in a beautiful area that triples in population over Summer (Xmas/ NYE), and though I dont like to over-generalise, most seem to be very busy people who have no time for things like courtesy, or basic road rules.

Its a bit hectic, and its the hottest time of year AND everyone is angling for that last parking space/ ham/ kilo of prawns etc.

Honestly? Theres nothing my anger can change that my smile can't - and why would I want my hard-won state of mind to be blown about by someone who probably knows exactly what they just did but has done it so long they just think its not a big problem?

I feel angry, but just like with my kids I think "they don't know any better, if they had just a taste of this freedom they could'nt be so onerous to there fellow peoples." Except with my kids, I know there little brains havent fully developed and so I have hope lol.

Guess what im saying is that being buddhist/hindu/martian probably has very little to do with how people will treat you, its all surface appearance. What they will respect is firm boundaries. Listen to Jundo and decide what is worth fighting for, and what is just a great opportunity to be free!. I say all this because I used to be like that, and I feel sorry for those people and wish they could find there own freedom.



Thankyou for all the tips guys, IMO its boredom and frustration that are teh biggest challenges.


Geoff,
a student.

SatToday.

[Jishin]

I think Jishin is just kidding. Certainly "balls" have caused most of the problems in this world!

http://youtu.be/c-hnBMZH2UA

Nothing wrong with big balls.

Gasho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Ryan379]

I think perhaps it stems from people getting far too wrapped up in "should be's"; we seem to get fixated to ideas that "X should be Y", and that when X turns out not to be Y we become upset, angry, anxious etc (ie. experience Dhukka), using Bluecat's example most people feel that others shouldn't jump the line and so when people do they are no longer adhering to our world view and so we become angry. On the flipside, perhaps that individual felt he should have jumped the queue, for whatever reasons they may have felt justified their action.

However, if we are able to get past our "should be's" and come to understand and accept that X is fine being X and doesn't need to be Y (ie. accepting things just as they are, in their thusness) we free ourselves from the inevitable Dhukka that comes from resisting X being X. Going further, once we gain an intuitive insight into emptiness we are also able to see that X and Y are not separate, that X is X, is Y, and also Z, and is in fact the whole alphabet, without separation, yet remaining distinct.

If we can realise this we can also realise that X and Y are just projections of our minds and that the alphabet doesn't exist as the alphabet, it's something more than that yet is nothing more than the alphabet, we just call it an alphabet.

I feel if we are able to let go of "should" and let things just be as they are without labels, judgements and distinctions(which is the core of our practice) we can just observe the actions of others, smile and let it go. After all, why suffer because of our own views of how others "should" behave? Or on what we believe is "right" or "wrong"?

Sorry I think I rambled on for too long and didn't say anything overly relevant [emoji29]

Gassho [emoji120]

Ryan

Sat today

[Joyo]

That was really insightful, Ryan. Thank you for sharing.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Jakuden]

I agree!! That's it in a nutshell. The more you can step back and catch the "shoulds" in your head the more awake you are and the less relevant and lasting the accompanying emotions become.

Gassho,
Sierra
SatToday

[Jundo]

I think perhaps it stems from people getting far too wrapped up in "should be's"; we seem to get fixated to ideas that "X should be Y", and that when X turns out not to be Y we become upset, angry, anxious etc (ie. experience Dhukka), using Bluecat's example most people feel that others shouldn't jump the line and so when people do they are no longer adhering to our world view and so we become angry. On the flipside, perhaps that individual felt he should have jumped the queue, for whatever reasons they may have felt justified their action.

However, if we are able to get past our "should be's" and come to understand and accept that X is fine being X and doesn't need to be Y (ie. accepting things just as they are, in their thusness) we free ourselves from the inevitable Dhukka that comes from resisting X being X. Going further, once we gain an intuitive insight into emptiness we are also able to see that X and Y are not separate, that X is X, is Y, and also Z, and is in fact the whole alphabet, without separation, yet remaining distinct.

If we can realise this we can also realise that X and Y are just projections of our minds and that the alphabet doesn't exist as the alphabet, it's something more than that yet is nothing more than the alphabet, we just call it an alphabet.

I feel if we are able to let go of "should" and let things just be as they are without labels, judgements and distinctions(which is the core of our practice) we can just observe the actions of others, smile and let it go. After all, why suffer because of our own views of how others "should" behave? Or on what we believe is "right" or "wrong"?

Sorry I think I rambled on for too long and didn't say anything overly relevant [emoji29]

Gassho [emoji120]

Ryan

Sat today

Hi Ryan,

This X and Y is pretty much how I try to explain "Dukkha" to folks ...

Buddha-Basics (Part I) — Scooby Dooby Dukkha

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7720-Buddha-Basics-%28Part-I%29-%C2%97-Scooby-Dooby-Dukkha

Buddha-Basics (Part II) — Noble Truths

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7719-Buddha-Basics-%28Part-II%29-%C2%97-Noble-Truths

Our “dissatisfaction,” “disappointment,”‘ “unease” and “frustration” — Dukkha — arises as a state of mind, as our demands and wishes for how things “should be” or “if only would be for life to be content” differ from”the way things are.” Your “self” wishes this world to be X, yet this world is not X. That wide gap of “self” and “not self” is the source of Dukkha.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Ryan379]

Thanks Jundo, I always aim to take your teachings on board

I actually came across your post Playing with Fire today and found it very apt

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?8266-Playing-With-Fire

Gassho

Ryan

Sat Today

[Ryan379]

Read this and thought it might be appropriate

Inclination of mind
Others will be cruel; we shall not be cruel. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will kill living beings; we shall abstain from killing living beings. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will take what is not given; we shall abstain from taking what is not given. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will engage in inappropriate sexuality, we shall abstain from inappropriate sexuality. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will speak falsehoods; we shall abstain from false speech. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will speak maliciously; we shall abstain from malicious speech. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will gossip; we shall abstain from gossip. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will be envious; we shall not be envious. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will be avaricious; we shall not be avaricious. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will be fraudulent; we shall not be fraudulent. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will be arrogant; we shall not be arrogant. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will be unmindful; we shall be established in mindfulness. Thus, one should incline the mind.
Others will lack wisdom; we shall cultivate wisdom. Thus, one should incline the mind.

- adapted from the Majjhima Nikaya, translated by Nanamoli and Bodhi, from Teachings of the Buddha by Jack Kornfield

Gassho

Ryan

Sat Today

[GregJanL]

In contemporary western culture, the 'helpful' are often the subserviant. I'm willing to bend over backwards for situations regarding helping someone meet nessesities and nooo further.

Lost the most basic reins on life that impede your ability to stay alive and i can help somehow without endangering my own ability to meet nessesities? No problem. Want 'help' constructing an above nessesities life/empire to help you chase indulgences I wouldn't chase myself? No and if they get pushy, I curb their enthusiasm by giving the impermanence, gold looses its luster, actions for or against interdependent well being "speech" to spell out why I don't care to help and passively hint at how this is not only a futile attempt at happiness but greedy and self serving. If they say I'm getting preachy I point out that I don't care if they climb up a tree I see as fruitless, I just will not be joining them.

noble eightfold path understanding and application here is key. I do *gasp* judge which request for assistance is noble assistance and which is worldly assistance.

Being a buddhist is doing what is right and elaborating on when needed as to why you won't simply be a people pleaser, saying yes to whatever request. Also passively turns a dominering against yours, theirs and others well being attempt into a natural occasion to discuss buddhist views without yourself being a domineering, obnoxiously pointificating secular or spiritual annoyance.


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[bluecat]

LOL! Refraining from tempting jokes about Christmas balls.

Bluecat, do you by any chance live on Long Island, NY? I moved out of there when I went to college but still have family on Western LI, so I go to visit. I have noticed when I go to the supermarket there and wait in the the deli line (actually "on" the deli line, if you are from LI) people sometimes purposely barge into the line the way you described, sometimes brazenly, in front of myself and others. Sometimes folks in the line say something, sometimes the counter person then asks for their number (with so many people they have to take a tag), sometimes they get away with it. I just chuckle and think that if it's that important to someone to be first in line, I'm glad to let them go, although I doubt somehow that it really brings them any joy. It also keeps me in appreciation of the little supermarket in my hometown in Upstate NY where everyone is usually courteous and friendly.

Gassho,
Sierra
SatToday

Hi Sierra,

I grew up on Long Island and spent over 30 years there, actually spent too many of my teenage years on the other side of the deli counter helping those on the deli line. Sadly I have not found a nice town in upstate NY where courteous behavior is the norm rather than an exception. I guess LI attitudes aren't restrained to just LI like I had heard so often growing up. People are people, doesn't matter if they are in Georgia or NY you are going to have rudeness, brazen bullies, etc. wherever.

Just a challenge to deal with at times for me and an area where I can use some advice to refrain from letting anger get the best of me.

Sat today

[bluecat]

I think perhaps it stems from people getting far too wrapped up in "should be's"; we seem to get fixated to ideas that "X should be Y", and that when X turns out not to be Y we become upset, angry, anxious etc (ie. experience Dhukka), using Bluecat's example most people feel that others shouldn't jump the line and so when people do they are no longer adhering to our world view and so we become angry. On the flipside, perhaps that individual felt he should have jumped the queue, for whatever reasons they may have felt justified their action.

However, if we are able to get past our "should be's" and come to understand and accept that X is fine being X and doesn't need to be Y (ie. accepting things just as they are, in their thusness) we free ourselves from the inevitable Dhukka that comes from resisting X being X. Going further, once we gain an intuitive insight into emptiness we are also able to see that X and Y are not separate, that X is X, is Y, and also Z, and is in fact the whole alphabet, without separation, yet remaining distinct.

If we can realise this we can also realise that X and Y are just projections of our minds and that the alphabet doesn't exist as the alphabet, it's something more than that yet is nothing more than the alphabet, we just call it an alphabet.

I feel if we are able to let go of "should" and let things just be as they are without labels, judgements and distinctions(which is the core of our practice) we can just observe the actions of others, smile and let it go. After all, why suffer because of our own views of how others "should" behave? Or on what we believe is "right" or "wrong"?

Sorry I think I rambled on for too long and didn't say anything overly relevant [emoji29]

Gassho [emoji120]

Ryan

Sat today

Thank you Ryan, this is very insightful and relevant.

Sat today.

[GregJanL]

Hi Ryan,

This X and Y is pretty much how I try to explain "Dukkha" to folks ...

Buddha-Basics (Part I) — Scooby Dooby Dukkha

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7720-Buddha-Basics-%28Part-I%29-%C2%97-Scooby-Dooby-Dukkha

Buddha-Basics (Part II) — Noble Truths

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?7719-Buddha-Basics-%28Part-II%29-%C2%97-Noble-Truths

Gassho, J

SatToday

Jundo,

The let x be x point seems to me to potentially conflict with only a narrow set of issues relating to nessesities.

If I'm hungry for example I'd eat and want hunger to be satiated, literal thirst to be quenched. I see it as let whatever be short of my "personal" and "other" bare minimum well-being being impeded at which point action actually turns into a must if there are actions to take and only accept my lack of nessesities when stuck in some proverbial desert and accept the end approching, hopefully not retaining any reminant grasping at life nessesities when there are none after death should reincarnation be real and I cause another rebirth from the grasping.

This is the best logical understanding I have thusfar as to how "nirvana with reminants"/life with body and nessesities remaining and "paranirvana"/death with complete nirvana and no further grasping.

This view has settled into a steadiness that internal critique has found no holes in for a while and I'm curious if you have any input.

Metta,
Greg

sattoday

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[Frank]

Feeling a little called to chime in here.
There is a list of 4 things in the martial arts called the Ethics of Defense in Combat.
From lowest to highest, in goes something like this ...in a nutshell...
The lowest form, one person attacks another and kills them, unprovoked.
Next, one person provokes another, to cause the other person to attack (grocery line?).
Next, one person attacks, and the other defends himself (basically what is accepted in society...self-fedense)
But...the highest form, would be to defend oneself in a way, without causing yourself OR YOU ATTACKER, any harm.
Difficult, but do-able.

Many people now have carry and conceal weapons on them. Should you shoot someone? Hopefully not. We don't aspire to harm any living beings.
Do you have car insurance? Hopefully so, but you hope you never have to use it, but it's nice to have just in case you do need it.

Same with a carry and conceal gun. Same with studying the martial arts, and perhaps the same in our studies and sitting.

We train, and prepare ourselves for this life and the next. We train to be assets to society and to help one another.

Ive studied the martial arts over 46 years, and people ask me how often I train. I tell them...every day. I use something I have learned, either dealing with people, being aware, breathing, etc...every day.

i think, that when we sit, we prepare ourselves for our practice of what we bring to others every day, and what we bring to ourselves......be it everything ... Or nothing.

Thoughts?

Gassho my friends

Frank