Sitting with lower back yain

[Joyo]

And I agree that yoga is a good idea with back pain. Just please be careful, as you can make your back injuries worse. Don't do what I did----which was to push myself so hard that yoga started to make my sacrum issues much worse. I'm not sure about scoliosis, but I know with other back injuries, any yoga with twisting is not good. Restorative/hatha yoga is a good place to start for gentle stretching, then just some gentle yoga with strength is great also............along with walking and hiking =)

If you do a search on youtube "Lesley Fightmaster gentle" a bunch of great videos will show up. And Yoga with Olga is good also. I've just learned to stick to these two online instructors, and to be very careful when it comes to taking yoga classes with an instructor as they do not all know how to modify yoga for an injury.

Gassho,
Joyo
sat today

[Kakunen]

Start from feeling whole your body.Master Dogen said.仏道を習うは自己を習うなり。 Gassho.


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** Translation from Jundo: 仏道を習うは自己を習うなり - To study the buddha way is to study the self.

[Ryumon]

And I agree that yoga is a good idea with back pain. Just please be careful, as you can make your back injuries worse. Don't do what I did----which was to push myself so hard that yoga started to make my sacrum issues much worse. I'm not sure about scoliosis, but I know with other back injuries, any yoga with twisting is not good. Restorative/hatha yoga is a good place to start for gentle stretching, then just some gentle yoga with strength is great also............along with walking and hiking =)

Yes, most yoga exercises are dangerous for me. I learned that the hard way many years ago, when I thought that stretching and yoga were always good to do.

Gassho,

Kirk

[Ongen]

Jundo,

I know, but I find that my sitting is very different if I lie down or recline, compared to when I'm sitting up. I don't find the groove as easily when I'm lying down.

Oh, could you or someone fix the typo in the thread title? :-o

Gassho,

Kirk

Hi Kirk,

I have nothing to add to the great advice already given, I too switch between zafu, chair, bed or a seiza bench (one with one leg in the middle - makes slight adjustments possible) when my back is not allowing me to use a zafu.

Still I wonder, which groove are you looking for? And is it good or bad that the sitting is different?

Gassho

Ongen

Sat Today

[Ryumon]

When I try to meditate lying down, I generally get sleepy and my mind drifts more. But when I sit up, I am more awake. I also find that my mind wanders more when I am lying down.

Gassho,

Kirk

[Jundo]

Hi Kirk,

I have nothing to add to the great advice already given, I too switch between zafu, chair, bed or a seiza bench (one with one leg in the middle - makes slight adjustments possible) when my back is not allowing me to use a zafu.

Still I wonder, which groove are you looking for? And is it good or bad that the sitting is different?

Gassho

Ongen

Sat Today

I believe that Konan (Mr. K.) and Ongen speak wisely here.

More vital than feeling sleepy or awake, mind wandering or grooving or not, back aching or not ...

... it to sit as the total Completeness and Wholeness of just what is, not one iota lacking. Back aching is Aching Buddha Backing. Healthy or sick, no matter ... just Sun Faced Buddha Moon Faced Buddha (an old Koan meaning something like "just two sides of the no sided coin") Sitting, standing, reclining, walking, running or flying through the air ... Where Is There To Go?

Of course, better to be awake and not fall asleep, better not to be lost in thought, best to avoid the avoidable backaches. No problem. If a better Zafu or position helps heal the back, then sit that way. Of course, better to have health than sickness, so we see the doctor and take our medicine. Nonetheless, win or lose ... we sit As What Is.

However, no "groove" is ever needed. Sometimes groving, sometimes groveling. Groove or grooveless, all the Groovy Buddha.

All through the sitting, whether one is successful in easing the back and mind or not, pain or not, one must sit in the "Big Ok" of Just This. So, as Ongen says :

which groove are you looking for? And is it good or bad that the sitting is different?

We are wisely strange that way.

To continue the quote from Mr. K ...

自己をならふといふは、自己を忘るるなり、自己をわするるといふは、万法まんぽうに証せらるる なり

To study the self is to forget the self. To forget the self is to be actualized by myriad things.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[somanaut]

This is more to the general topic of back pain, and not specifically to any of the mentioned issues of pain while sitting.
I see some recommendations for yoga. But one I would also point to is: try classical weightlifting exercises such as deadlift or single leg deadlifts (perhaps with no weight for a isometric hold), sometimes it's not about flexibility, but about pure strength. And no, such exercises won't impede your zazen, it takes years of specific and dedicated powerlifting without any mobility or stretching to make you less flexible. This isn't a criticism of yoga (used to practise and teach in the ashtanga lineage, before I returned to zazen). But my own 10+ years of chronic back pain (when standing, walking and sitting) was greatly diminished when I took up weightlifting this year. Not saying it will work for everyone, and of course be carefull when doing such strength work. But there are alternatives to yoga and physical therapy. And strength training can be as focused a practise as any yoga or tai chi. If you dislike gyms, invest in a few kettlebells, and voila exercises can be done in the comfort of your home.
Best Regards
Jesper
Sat Today