A Buddhist Studies online course: Integrated Dharma

[Roland]

Tricycle announces an online course about 'Integrated Dharma': 'Integrated Dharma is a new approach to understanding and embodying the teachings of the Buddha. It is intended to bring contemporary people living in the modern world into very intimate contact with the thoughts and words of the historical Buddha. The approach is respectful of the classical tradition and faithful to the original teachings, but also secular in its orientation and focused more on the practical psychology of Buddhism than upon its religious or metaphysical aspects.'The teacher is Andrew Olendzki. I guess it could be interesting?

Gassho,
Roland
#SatToday

PS The course is not free but there's a discount for Tricycle-members.

[GregJanL]

Roland,

I do think that a applicable understanding of how interdepenendent existence and compassion woven with the virtue of neither indulgence nor austerity born from deepening appreciation of impermanence can be touched without a single 'magical' siddhi or skillset not obvious to ones senses.

That being said there is considerable merit to the notion that the 'paranormal' aspect of Buddhism is just as real and important to grasp and is less paranormal then a normal expression of nature that is touched so rarely these days to make it seem 'wild' and 'paranormal' because it is simply not touched often.

People used to think a platypus was a made up creature and were bewildered by the novelty of its reality when they saw it, novelty wore off and then it was a common thing like everything else. I'm worried a bit about for example, hell realms being seen exclusively as a mental phenomena with the dismissal that these realms don't have a physical counterpart to be born into. I give a lot of it the benefit of the doubt since so much of Buddhism doesn't amount to nothing that is touchable. It is mildly worrying that things seen more 'religious' are possibly unimportant since they may have no obvious immediate relationship to the 'seen'.

I don't know the full extent of the impact of the unseen interactions and meaning Buddhism holds but I do greatly value the adoption of a dharma protector practice to help clear 'inner, outer, and secret obstacles' to practice.

Whatever does happen to Buddhism down the road I hope the functional truth and practices that help develop heart-mind and whatever other required skill sets needed for full Buddhahood do survive both Buddhism going to the west and online like with Treeleaf.

If you do attend this course, I hope you do share whatever is said that will help peoples practice here flourish.

Metta,
Greg

Sent from my ALCATEL ONETOUCH P310A using Tapatalk

[Jundo]

That being said there is considerable merit to the notion that the 'paranormal' aspect of Buddhism is just as real and important to grasp and is less paranormal then a normal expression of nature that is touched so rarely these days to make it seem 'wild' and 'paranormal' because it is simply not touched often.

The following is not important except to people interested in such silly things ... the rest can disregard ...


Hi,

Mr. Olendski is a good Thervadan/Mindfulness Teacher, although I sometimes feel he is too rooted in those fine Traditions. We need to offer something like this more for the Mahayana.

I will be talking about this in a couple of weeks on the Secular Buddhist podcast (interview scheduled this weekend). I call our flavor "Religious-Secularism", keeping the best and most profound Teachings of Buddhism while abandoning many of the more superstitious elements. I do not have much trust in the so-called "paranormal", and beyond trust, I have even less need.

I am working on a draft of what this means now (still rough). Here is a small taste ...

I wish to offer a flavor of Buddhism which avoids both (1) literal belief in baseless myth, unfounded superstition, primitive magic and historical ignorance, and (2) the opposite extreme of stripping down old teachings and practices to such a degree that the “baby Buddha” is thrown out with the bath water, and many worthwhile and challenging teachings are lost due to being wrongly labeled as myth and magic. Many ancient legends maintain great value even if wholly or partly ahistorical legends, many of our most potent and challenging teachings do not conflict in any way with modern and scientific understanding (in fact, many may be seen as supported by modern discoveries), and many of our most beautiful ancient customs and practices have understandable value and meaning even in this day and age.

I believe that it is possible to maintain beliefs that are freed of superstition, demanding that there must be some credible evidence and basis to support which claims and suppositions about reality are true. More is demanded than simple blind faith in the assertions of an ancient book or teacher, even the purported words of the Buddha himself (assuming his actual words can even be known). It is time to recognize that many of the beliefs of ancient men and women, even of the Buddha himself, may have been the narrow and ill informed views of people limited to knowledge as it existed in centuries past. For some of us, there is need to discard fictions and foolish suppositions in the light of modern evidence.

On the other hand, we need not go to excess in rejecting all that is old merely for being old and hard to fathom in ordinary thinking, and we should not make the mistake of turning Buddhism into primarily some form of therapy or relaxation technique robbed of many ancient riches. Thus, I propose that we maintain the best of all possible worlds, what may be called a "Religious Secular Buddhism" which represents one "Third Way" to bridge some issues and difficulties facing Buddhism in the West.

..... [For example] We might maintain incense simply for its role in creating a psychological state of removal from worldly concerns in a certain space and time through the olfactory sense. One might maintain a statue or painting or old legend (even while recognizing that the story may have no legitimate historical foundation) as a reminder of a certain teacher or valid teaching or imparted truth. ...

On the other hand, we might jetison other claims and beliefs [such as in prayer services and the magic incantations known as "Dharani"] as baseless beliefs primarily employed as a kind of magic incantation absent showing of some other role or proof or real worldly effect. (We might recognize the retention of some practices for placebo effect, which has been show to actually exist and be a recognized too). We might abandon or remain skeptically agnostic on mechanical views of "rebirth" for lack of proof, and also out of a belief that such a system is not central to forms of Buddhism centered on "this world" practice here and now.

We continue to call this "religion" only in the narrow sense of being a teaching of the sacred and wondrous in all of life, combined with a willingness to look beyond many of our common sense assumptions about reality and self-identity. Apart from that, however, the superstition and silliness of traditional religious beliefs should be cast aside.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Roland]

Thank you Jundo and Greg for your responses. I look forward to the podcast about Religious Secular Buddhism - one of the reasons I got deeply interested in Soto Zen Buddhism is that it seems very secular indeed.

If ever we could organize a Massive Open Online Course about this topic, that would be most wonderful.

Gassho
Roland
#SatToday

[Jundo]

Thank you Jundo and Greg for your responses. I look forward to the podcast about Religious Secular Buddhism - one of the reasons I got deeply interested in Soto Zen Buddhism is that it seems very secular indeed.

Oh, Soto Zen historically is no more secular or free of myth and superstition than any other religion, Buddhist or otherwise. (I am now reading a book about Keizan, the 14th Century Ancestor, who was driven by dreams and visitations, fortune telling).

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=BnLOFwx1SpUC&pg=PA91&lpg=PA91&dq=keizan+dream+yokoji&source=bl&ots=6QK3sAo-XB&sig=_RgGodc4mTDe7j5_hOPtwIDtKZg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAGoVChMItLGmktP7xgIVxhimCh0GLgy3#v=onepage&q=keizan%20dream%20yokoji&f=false

Soto Zen in its Western, modern forms tends to be more secular. However, there are big exceptions, such as Kennett Roshi of the Shasta Abbey/OBC, who was also quite prone to dreams and visions and very wild interpretations.

https://books.google.co.jp/books?id=wesDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA56&lpg=PA56&dq=kennett+roshi+visions&source=bl&ots=eqB9EJir5X&sig=gH9Y1pKnLv8tx3BGNt9zbIURSX0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAmoVChMIts_hwNL7xgIV5BamCh1SMAYE#v=onepage&q=kennett%20roshi%20visions&f=false

Depends.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[broahes]

.. I do not have much trust in the so-called "paranormal", and beyond trust, I have even less need...

I believe this is the main reason I was drawn to Zen, and Soto Zen in particular, as there is really no belief or faith required. I believe in the application of the Dharma as it relates to the practical results that I have had based on practice bringing experience. Many people feel the need for different things, and I have no I'll will or need to argue any point. For me, the results I experience are the only faith needed.

Gassho,
Brooks sat today.

[Kaishin]

Looking forward to it, Jundo.

[Myosha]

Tricycle announces an online course about 'Integrated Dharma': 'Integrated Dharma is a new approach to understanding and embodying the teachings of the Buddha. It is intended to bring contemporary people living in the modern world into very intimate contact with the thoughts and words of the historical Buddha. The approach is respectful of the classical tradition and faithful to the original teachings, but also secular in its orientation and focused more on the practical psychology of Buddhism than upon its religious or metaphysical aspects.'The teacher is Andrew Olendzki. I guess it could be interesting?

Gassho,
Roland

Hello,

Cut the baloney, save money: just sit.


Gassho
Myosha sat today

[Luciana]

I'm giving it a try. My understanding is the Mr. Olendzki will teach the first 4 months, on Theravada, and that successive courses will cover later schools of Buddhism, with other teachers.

_/\_ L.

[GregJanL]

The following is not important except to people interested in such silly things ... the rest can disregard ...


Hi,

Mr. Olendski is a good Thervadan/Mindfulness Teacher, although I sometimes feel he is too rooted in those fine Traditions. We need to offer something like this more for the Mahayana.

I will be talking about this in a couple of weeks on the Secular Buddhist podcast (interview scheduled this weekend). I call our flavor "Religious-Secularism", keeping the best and most profound Teachings of Buddhism while abandoning many of the more superstitious elements. I do not have much trust in the so-called "paranormal", and beyond trust, I have even less need.

I am working on a draft of what this means now (still rough). Here is a small taste ...



Gassho, J

SatToday

In light of metta and interdependence that can even be appreciated intellectually at the least and not in practice, I don't see how a 'siddhi' has a beneficial force multiplier potential. I fully appreciate the secular 'show me the money' ideology, keeps things from getting too crazy. But I also give people the benefit of the doubt relating the existence of Colorado since I never been there but hear about it. Something like a siddhi is rarely demonstrated and hard to quantify regardless if it is referenced often, granted but remote viewing for example would have definite application for a aspiring bodhisattva, knowing where help is needed.

So show me the money...ok

I have a paper to build said case published by Jessica Utts from the University of California that explores the possibility of remote viewing being legitimate.

AN ASSESSMENT OF THE EVIDENCE FOR PSYCHIC FUNCTIONING

Link to paper: https://www.ics.uci.edu/~jutts/air.pdf

"It was indeed found that there was a correlation between the change in entropy in the target and the remote viewing quality." Page 20 Paragraph 1, Sentence 4

In basic English: when stuff changed while the person saying they could see stuff far away, they were right and had no way of knowing since there were appropriate controls in place.

The conclusion section of the paper supports that there is no other context to take the previous information in that the paper presents and I used.

"It is clear to this author that anomalous cognition is possible and has been demonstrated." Page 23, Paragraph 6, Sentence 1.

It's far less wordy and almost impossible to misunderstand but she said, 'I have enough proof that psychic phenomena is real.

...

Yes there are plenty of fakes and liars and superstitious people but I think there is plenty of applicable utility in what Buddhist Colorado says is possible with full respect that some of it might not be regardless of cognitive bias for or against supernatural phenomena as they are known within our outside of Buddhism.

Metta,
Greg






Sent from my ALCATEL ONETOUCH P310A using Tapatalk

[GregJanL]

In light of metta and interdependence that can even be appreciated intellectually at the least and not in practice, I don't see how a 'siddhi' has a beneficial force multiplier potential. I fully appreciate the secular 'show me the money' ideology, keeps things from getting too crazy. But I also give people the benefit of the doubt relating the existence of Colorado since I never been there but hear about it. Something like a siddhi is rarely demonstrated and hard to quantify regardless if it is referenced often, granted but remote viewing for example would have definite application for a aspiring bodhisattva, knowing where help is needed.

So show me the money...ok

I have a paper to build said case published by Jessica Utts from the University of California that explores the possibility of remote viewing being legitimate.

AN ASSESSMENT OF THE EVIDENCE FOR PSYCHIC FUNCTIONING

Link to paper: https://www.ics.uci.edu/~jutts/air.pdf

"It was indeed found that there was a correlation between the change in entropy in the target and the remote viewing quality." Page 20 Paragraph 1, Sentence 4

In basic English: when stuff changed while the person saying they could see stuff far away, they were right and had no way of knowing since there were appropriate controls in place.

The conclusion section of the paper supports that there is no other context to take the previous information in that the paper presents and I used.

"It is clear to this author that anomalous cognition is possible and has been demonstrated." Page 23, Paragraph 6, Sentence 1.

It's far less wordy and almost impossible to misunderstand but she said, 'I have enough proof that psychic phenomena is real.

...

Yes there are plenty of fakes and liars and superstitious people but I think there is plenty of applicable utility in what Buddhist Colorado says is possible with full respect that some of it might not be regardless of cognitive bias for or against supernatural phenomena as they are known within our outside of Buddhism.

Metta,
Greg






Sent from my ALCATEL ONETOUCH P310A using Tapatalk

Correction, doesn't have a beneficial force multiplier effect. No 'Freudian slip', mistake, Freud was a very ill man projecting his own deep seated issues on people in light of modern psychology that I still don't take seriously due to 'soft science', trying to cover a few bases at once..

Metta,
Greg

Sent from my ALCATEL ONETOUCH P310A using Tapatalk

[Anshu Bryson]

Dear Roland,

The course seems quite well structured to me, if not perhaps a little expensive...

While it is not necessary, of course to be a *gasp* 'Buddhist' to practice zazen, I think it is helpful to understand the paradigm. Even for those who don't subscribe to some of the religious elements (rebirth can be a sticking point, for example), it is always good to know exactly what it is with which one disagrees...

I have found Bhikku Bodhi's Pali Canon translations particularly useful. Wisdom Publications has a number of these on offer at reasonable prices (given the scope of the work) - http://www.wisdompubs.org/books/pali-canon.

But, as Jundo said above, this is not important except to the folk who are interested in these silly things (I am doing some formal study at present; they might become handy paperweights once I finish with that...!).

Gassho,
Anshu

-sat today-

[MikeTango]

Hi friends,
I cannot talk for Roland and other dharma friends inclined to take this course, but I remember that at the beginning of my practice I was extremely attached to the need of “understand” ideas and concepts related to Buddhist teachings (maybe because I used to be a professor and I had a strong intellectual predominance at that time). Then I remember many years ago I took a formal course about the same concepts in the Japanese association of my city, and every year I take a time to review all my notes of the course about those complex concepts. As other friends appointed it was not only an important investment in time (it was not an online course but in a classroom) but also in money. However, for a weird reason I felt that I needed that.
After some years of practice I have changed my mind and I agree with most of friends that think that sitting is the key, and go deep in those concepts is maybe not necessary to have a good practice. I my case that doesn’t mean that I don´t read more about dharma, but I´m most focused on core sutras and texts that help us with them, in general texts like them of Shunryu Suzuki, Joko Beck or Pema Chodron, and in podcasts of some Zen teachers in Internet. But I insist that I needed a time to change my mind and to feel me comfortable letting behind all these silly things, as Jundo said :-D. And I´m sure that there are other people like me.
Gassho
Miguel

[MikeTango]

I forgot something important:
_(Sat today)_

[Jundo]

But I also give people the benefit of the doubt relating the existence of Colorado since I never been there but hear about it. Something like a siddhi is rarely demonstrated and hard to quantify regardless if it is referenced often, granted but remote viewing for example would have definite application for a aspiring bodhisattva, knowing where help is needed.

So show me the money...ok

I have a paper to build said case published by Jessica Utts from the University of California that explores the possibility of remote viewing being legitimate.

AN ASSESSMENT OF THE EVIDENCE FOR PSYCHIC FUNCTIONING

Link to paper: https://www.ics.uci.edu/~jutts/air.pdf

Hello Greg,

Whether Siddhis (paranormal powers claimed by some Buddhists and other mystics) exist or not is not vital to my Practice. To me, the most amazing "mystical powers" exist in the human ability to drink a cool glass of water on a hot day, to smile, to cry, to breathe. Amazing that we are alive for such, here in this world! A couple of old talks ...

X - Whattsa Who'sa Bodhisattva? - The Virtue of Mystical Powers

http://www.treeleaf.org/sit-a-long/with-jundo-and-taigu/archives/2009/09/whattsa-whosa-bodhisattva---the-virtue-of-mystical-powers.html

XI - Whattsa Who'sa Bodhisattva? - (MORE) The Virtue of Mystical Powers
http://www.treeleaf.org/sit-a-long/w...al-powers.html

But I may also criticize and doubt the existence of many of the wilder claims for powers. I believe that "Colorado" exists while "Oz" (the one with the Wizard, not Australia) does not because I personally witness that (unlike Oz) planes seem to come and go to my town from there without incident, that I have tasted beer labeled as made there, that the residents seem to cast votes in the presidential elections, my mom sent me a postcard from Denver, and that I have seen the Broncos win and lose the Super Bowl. While that all could be a dream or amazing conspiracy to fool one into the existence of "Colorado", it seems more likely that there is a "Colorado". I also have reason to believe that "Oz" is based on a book by a writer of fiction named Frank Baum, as was a Hollywood Movie with Judy Garland.

Statistics can be bent and interpreted to point to many possibilities. It is a statistical possibility that Oz is real while Colorado is not. Before putting too much faith in a single statisticians report, you should look at the counter-evidence (after all, you have never met the author of "AN ASSESSMENT OF THE EVIDENCE FOR PSYCHIC FUNCTIONING", Jessica Utts, so how do you know she exists?)

Please read this article ...

When we examine the basis of Utts’s strong claim for the existence of psi, we find that it relies on a handful of experiments that have been shown to have serious weaknesses after undergoing careful scrutiny, and another handful of experiments that have yet to undergo scrutiny or be successfully replicated. What seems clear is that the scientific community is not going to abandon its fundamental ideas about causality, time, and other principles on the basis of a handful of experiments whose findings have yet to be shown to be replicable and lawful.

Utts does assert that the findings from parapsychological experiments can be replicated with well-controlled experiments given adequate resources. But this is a hope or promise. Before we abandon relativity and quantum mechanics in their current formulations, we will require more than a promissory note. We will want, as is the case in other areas of science, solid evidence that these findings can, indeed, be produced under specified conditions.

Again, I do not have time to develop another part of this story. Because even if Utts and her colleagues are correct and we were to find that we could reproduce the findings under specified conditions, this would still be a far cry from concluding that psychic functioning has been demonstrated. This is because the current claim is based entirely upon a negative outcome — the sole basis for arguing for ESP is that extra-chance results can be obtained that apparently cannot be explained by normal means. But an infinite variety of normal possibilities exist and it is not clear than one can control for all of them in a single experiment. You need a positive theory to guide you as to what needs to be controlled, and what can be ignored. Parapsychologists have not come close to this as yet.


Ray Hyman is professor emeritus of psychology, University of Oregon.

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/evidence_for_psychic_functioning_claims_vs._reality/

But then again, anything is possible. There may be a Wizard, but not Kansas.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday