Being at Ease with the Self

[Jinyo]

'Philosophy is sometimes helpful and fun ... and sometimes creates the mess, and gets in the way of true Understanding.'

Have to agree

(Please can someone instruct me how to put a quote in a green box - don't seem able to figure it out !)

The problem with Philosophy is sometimes it makes one's head hurt before it clicks and could be thought of in any way as helpful and liberating. With certain writers you have to put the
work in and wrestle with the text and ideas before you can actualize what's being conveyed in any practical/lived sense.


I don't disagree with Tony because these difficult texts can arouse fear - for example, fear of thinking oneself lacking if the meaning isn't immediately or easily accessible. Dr Kim's book is a good example. It is not an easy text to grapple with. I'm on my second reading and was on the point of giving up when something 'clicked' towards the end of the third chapter. It's beginning to feel like worth the effort but I had to work through some negativity to reach that point.

It's a matter of personal preference really.

Joyo's words resonated for me,

'Perhaps my practice will change as I go along, but maybe it won't. For me, I just like to keep things simple...sit, chant, study the dharma, chop wood, carry water. No fear, as that is dropped as the above is practiced. '

I feel keeping things simple is an art - in a strange kind of way more difficult than grappling with philosophy. It involves an element of trust and faith and the ability to drop fear.

Thank you for the teaching,

Gassho


Willow

sat today

[dharmasponge]

I'm sorry but I don't respond to rude comments Myosha Particularly when such flippant and nonsensical comments as I gave back to Jishins question are oft looked upon as wise and deep. What's good for the Goose and all that. Or is Zen different?

The original intention behind my opening post was to share a positive and wholesome experience I had when sitting. I'm sorry it's been taken as some sort of intellectual challenge. It wasn't meant to be.


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[dharmasponge]

....having said that. I can assure you my philosophical balls are big enough to debate with anyone - anyone who has ears that is.

sat today

#disappointed


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[Stev]

Great, so you have just admitted what all women already presumed, guys think with their genitals



Sat today

[dharmasponge]

I don't think it's out genitals we're supposed to think with.....but you're close (literally) [emoji3][emoji3]


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[Myosha]

Bit harsh, dude.

Gassho
Kokuu
#sattoday

Hello,

True that. Thank you.


Gassho
Myosha sat today.

[Jundo]

Please keep it gentle and civil, everyone. One can still express the thoughts one wishes even so.

Gassho, J

SatToday

[Jishin]

Why not? ( Jishin answer )

Hi Tony,

When you hurt I hurt. When I am happy you are happy. This is why I practice. I feel your (our) pain and restlessness when you engage in mental masturbation. It's a never ending cycle. After one question is answered another one comes up. Let's drop the why and why nots and enjoy life. Let's invite some sentient beings to enjoy the ride with us and have some fun! What do you say?

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Nameless]

So many questions resolve themselves when I ask why I'm even asking why. Or we can just smile at them and move on. Philosophy is just entertainment in the long run, another form of play.

Looking to the sutras, we stumble on many insights. There's something for everyone in there, because Buddha practiced skillful means. To one person, he may have spoken of emptiness, to another, virtue, to another Buddha nature. One of my favorite lines comes from the Nirvana Sutra "All things are like phantoms, the Tathagata lives in between. What he has is expediency; he does not cling."

Often times he seemed to speak without saying anything because he was just presenting all possible views and claiming none as his own. He offers exceptions to everything he said, even anicca, anatta and emptiness. This is why the Dharma is both philosophy, ontology and ethics, yet also none of those things at the same time. And in debates, I always try to remember that my view is incomplete, no matter what it is or how beneficial it is. My perception is just like watching things through a window. Buddha encourages us to step outside and see things as they are, which involves seeing the way others see things as well.

Thus, no need for me to cling to certainty or get angry during a debate. Actually, often times seems like were all saying the same thing in different ways

Gassho, John
Sat Today

[dharmasponge]

I say that works much better (for me) Jishin. Thank you and I agree. My personality does thrive on philosophical thought and always has. It's a play at times. Though I do think discussing and debating Emptiness, even as an intellectual exercise helps deepen our understanding and this bleeds into our practice. But maybe not for everyone, I do get that.


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[Nameless]

Btw, if you're interested in an in depth look at the sentient/insentient Buddha nature/emptiness debate thats been going on for centuries, this was a great article. Picked through it for a few days.http://kr.buddhism.org/zen/koan/Robert_Sharf-e.htm

Gassho, John
Sat Today

[Ugrok]

I don't know if you already did, but maybe everyone should really read Nagarjuna's Middle Way (don't know how it's called in English) while listening to John Dunne's podcasts "Revealing Nagarjuna" available on Upaya Zen Center's website. It's great to do both, because John Dunne is really funny and makes the whole thing quite light (while reading Nagarjuna on your own might be really difficult).

For a guy like Nagarjuna, philosophy is definitely practice. It leads to the cornering and exhausting of the conceptual mind. John Dunne worked a lot on the links between philosophy and practice, and his approach would be that both are necessary (anyway we all do philosophy all the time without noticing it) ; but he also says that a good philosophy is one that leads to a kind of failure of the logical, conceptual mind, thus invalidating itself and revealing that any thought and concept is relative. It is Nagarjuna's aim in his book, and it works. It demonstrates, logically, that logical thought cannot allow you to represent "reality" correctly. It is really an experience of emptiness via thought processes. Really, if you are interested in emptiness and philosophy and practice, this should be a great read / listening.

Gassho,

Ugrok
Sat Today

[Amelia]

"Cut off the mind road."

Gassho, sat today