Being at Ease with the Self

[dharmasponge]

I was at my Monday evening sit with the Ch'an group - in the break the leader spoke of something John Crook used to speak of - "Being at ease with the self". This had a huge impact on the subsequent session.

The mind arises from Emptiness and appears, I see being at ease with it as acknowledging it, but not needing to do anything about it.

Question of course is....who sees it arise?

[Rich]

That's a great question that brings you back to what is. Being at ease with this is such a gift.

Master sueng Sahn said 'cut off all thinking'.

Sat today

[Jishin]

Hi,

The mind is emptiness.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Ugrok]

Hello !

As Jishin said above and as your last question shows, I don't think the mind "appears" or "disappears" or whatever. There is nothing special to look for or to acknowledge, and there is no self to be at ease with, and no "who" that can be at ease with "it".

Just relax and sit, as always, i guess !

Gassho,

Ugrok
Sat Today

[Byokan]

Hi Tony,

The mind arises from Emptiness and appears, I see being at ease with it as acknowledging it, but not needing to do anything about it.

Hmm.

The mind (please define mind) arises from Emptiness (does it?) and appears (where is it?), I (who?) see being at ease with it (here is separation, yes?) as acknowledging it (why?), but not needing to do anything about it (why not?).

--or--

The wave arises from the ocean and appears. Does the water need to be at ease with it, acknowledge it, or decide whether or not to do anything about it?

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Jundo]

Intentionally not participating in this thread ... except to say that.

Now here is the question: Am I participating or not participating?

[Jishin]

Tea anyone?

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Kyonin]

Hi all,

In my beginning-less study of the Heart Sutra I have come at peace with the idea that all is Emptiness. No formations of mind.

It's just us watching our thoughts and holding onto them.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Troy]

Tea anyone?

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

I take mine with a little sweetener


..sat2day•

[Nameless]

Wonderful. Lately, zazen has taken on a new flavor for me. Just effortless silence, no thoughts at all, not even the thought about how silent it is. Seems that so much of my suffering lives only in my thoughts. When they evaporate, dukkha joins them. Even though there are no thoughts, it doesn't feel like Dead Zen (Lobotomy Zen). There's still something, just can't quite say what it is ya know?

Gassho, John
Sat Today

[Jinyo]

Wonderful. Lately, zazen has taken on a new flavor for me. Just effortless silence, no thoughts at all, not even the thought about how silent it is. Seems that so much of my suffering lives only in my thoughts. When they evaporate, dukkha joins them. Even though there are no thoughts, it doesn't feel like Dead Zen (Lobotomy Zen). There's still something, just can't quite say what it is ya know?

Gassho, John
Sat Today

Best not try to say - let's just all enjoy

Gassho

Willow

sat today

[dharmasponge]

Hi Tony,



Hmm.

The mind (please define mind) arises from Emptiness (does it?) and appears (where is it?), I (who?) see being at ease with it (here is separation, yes?) as acknowledging it (why?), but not needing to do anything about it (why not?).

--or--

The wave arises from the ocean and appears. Does the water need to be at ease with it, acknowledge it, or decide whether or not to do anything about it?

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

Hi Lisa,

The mind, definition...? The conventional appearance I am talking about. The base of consciousness. The platform of awareness. Either way, you know what I mean [emoji12]

Yes it does arise out of emptiness as does everything - see Heart Sutra.

Where is it? Nowhere...its a formless phenomena not bound by time or space.

Who? Me, the generic image I have of myself. Illusory but existent.

Acknowledging it because it is the root of my delusions.

Not doing anything as isn't that the point of Shikantaza?

Finally, the sea and wave don't posses a mind and therefore aren't sentient.

Tony...


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[Jishin]

Tony,

Don't put legs on a snake.

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[Byokan]

Hi Tony,

I know some people really dislike these discussions, and words do tend to lead us in circles! But “I” don’t “mind” discussing it. Shikantaza is the essential thing to do, no question. But I also think sometimes it’s ok to wonder and chatter like curious little monkeys. Sometimes sounding it out really helps to clarify things. It does for me, anyway; maybe it’s a “beginner” thing.

If you view the mind as an entity with a discrete existence, then yes, I suppose you would need to deal with it in some way, acknowledging, or doing something about it or not. But I think this view is an illusion that brings you into a hall of mirrors, with “I” reflecting off of “Mind”, and no end to it.

I was using the sea as a metaphor: the wave arises, but where is the boundary between the wave and the sea? There is no separation. In this metaphor the water has no need to acknowledge or do anything about the ocean or the wave... because they are all one, the same thing, just manifesting as their “water-ness”. I was trying to point to the idea that the mind may “arise from” Emptiness, but is not a separate thing from it.

I think you are saying that because you are sentient, you must respond to your perceptions of self and reality? The primary task, as I see it, is -- not to acknowledge or do anything about “mind” -- but rather to realize this fundamental nature, the real essence of mind, I, being, etc... They are all the same “stuff”. Realizing the nature of the water rather than cataloging oceans, waves, rivers, clouds, raindrops, etc.

The mind is not the root of your delusions. The idea of mind, self, or I, as a separate thing, is the delusion.

Anyway that’s how I see it. Today. Is there cake to go with our tea?

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Ongen]

There is no cake.

"Realising the nature of the water rather than cataloging oceans, waves, rivers, clouds, raindrops, etc. "

Wonderful. Thank you

Gassho

Ongen
Camped in my new tent today


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