Despair

[Fuken]

Re: Despair

From the wanderling for anyones knowledge:

Bompu, or "ordinary," Zen as opposed to the other four, each of which can be thought of as a special kind of Zen suitable for the particular aims of different individuals. Bompu Zen, being free from any philosophic or religious content, is for anybody and everybody. It is a Zen practiced purely in the belief that it can improve both physical and mental health. Since it can almost certainly have no ill effects, anyone can undertake it, whatever religious beliefs he happens to hold or if he holds none at all. Bompu Zen is bound to eliminate sickness of a psychosomatic nature and to improve the health generally.

Through the practice of bompu Zen you learn to concentrate and control your mind. It never occurs to most people to try to control their minds, and unfortunately this basic training is left out of contemporary education, not being part of what is called the acquisition of knowledge. Yet without it what we learn is difficult to retain because we learn it improperly, wasting much energy in the process. Indeed, we are virtually crippled unless we know how to restrain our thoughts and concentrate our minds. Furthermore, by practicing this very excellent mode of mind training you will find yourself increasingly able to resist temptations to which you had previously succumbed, and to sever attachments which had long held you in bondage. An enrichment in personality and a strengthening of character inevitably follow since the three basic elements of mind - that is, intellect, feeling, and will - develop harmoniously. The quietist sitting practiced in Confucianism seems to have stressed mainly these effects of mind concentration. However, the fact remains that bompu Zen, although far more beneficial for the cultivation of the mind than the reading of countless books on ethics and philosophy, is unable to resolve the fundamental problem of man and his relation to the universe. Why? Because it cannot pierce the ordinary man's basic delusion of himself as distinctly other than the universe.

In gassho,
Jordan

[will]

Re: Despair

I didn't come to Zen or to Buddhism to calm or to soothe myself or to simply learn a better method for enjoying life. Don't they call that Bompu Zen?

Good point. But we can't sit around only talking about it right? That would be what is referred to as "Fool's Zen" (for real. they used to call it that).

Sometimes you just have to take it easy yo. It's all about smelling the flowers (kind of) and whatever reason brought you to Zen has nothing to do with Zen. And Zen will never give you what you want. Don't let The words "Great and Perfect Practice" fool you. I refer back to my last post on dis topic.

Peeaace

Good Night

G,W

[will]

Re: Despair

Thanks for the post Jordan.

Gassho

[Stephanie]

Re: Despair

The way I understand the term (also spelled Bonpu) is that a Bompu Zen practitioner simply practices to improve quality of ordinary life, as opposed to striving to resolve the matter of life and death.

[Fuken]

Re: Despair

no life or death.

[Jundo]

Re: Despair

I perceive a dissatisfaction with life that is fairly profound (and a bit scary).

Couldn't the same have been said of the Buddha as well?

True. But I think he finally had the good sense to learn when and how to stop beating himself to a pulp. I think he did come to savor the flowers.

And, if done skillfully, I believe the Practioner is then truly self-actualized, liberated, so much more alive for doing so ... not less.

It is not a matter of feeling "good" all the time. It is not a matter of giving up wrestling with existence or passion.

Instead, it is a matter of being at home in one's own being. It is not tranquilizers, but tranquility amid the fire.

The way I understand the term (also spelled Bonpu) is that a Bompu Zen practitioner simply practices to improve quality of ordinary life, as opposed to striving to resolve the matter of life and death.

We resolve the matter of life-death quite clearly. Not all the details of course, or even most of the details (I do not know if we get free ice cream sundaes for all eternity), but the very heart of the matter ... and with real answers (not fairy tales). All that is required is a new way or two of seeing things, and of understanding who we are. At least, I think so, and Dogen and others thought so, and so that is the type of Buddhism I try to teach around here.

Life-death = piece-o-cake. :wink: It is just a question of whether folks can get their heads around it.

Gassho, Jundo

[Stephanie]

Re: Despair

It is not tranquilizers, but tranquility amid the fire.

Yer killin' me over here, sensei J (in a good way).

Life-death = piece-o-cake. :wink: It is just a question of whether folks can get their heads around it.

Maybe I'll finally get it one of these days

[Eika]

Re: Despair

Stephanie wrote:
Couldn't the same have been said of the Buddha as well?

Yes, but he did do something about it. He did the only thing that was available to him at the time and he did it wholeheartedly for years before he found an answer he could live with. I am surprised at your frustration when the answers you receive from folks who have never seen your face or shaken your hand don't fit your expectations.

Also, I'm no psychiatrist or psychologist so I wasn't prescribing Prozac. All I was suggesting was to talk to someone who had the ability and authority to provide whatever help might be available to you. Maybe all you need is a hug. Maybe all you need is a kick in the ass. Maybe all you need is a good movie and a cry. I have no idea. I'm just doing my best to be a bit helpful in a community of folks who should try to help each other when they can.

You have great power because of your angst. Most people who are happy with their "small self" never even venture into discussions about the small self's relationship to the "large self." You, by virtue of being dissatisfied, are trying to rationalize these two worlds. I personally feel that this is where most of our great art, literature, and religious works come from. So, I'm not suggesting you are broken. However, many of the kind of people I just described never realize their potential on this planet because they become unbalanced and drift to the dark places that produce suicides, drug addiction, and other self-destructive behaviors. The razor's edge is to let the angst drive you to positive action.

My words were meant to be helpful. I'm sorry if they are not clear enough or if they sound argumentative (that's not my intent).

Bill

[Ankai]

Re: Despair

Couldn't the same have been said of the Buddha as well? What if the Buddha had just gone and gotten some Prozac and learned to enjoy smelling the flowers?

He didn't. He tried "doing" all sorts of things, and had finally come to the place where, desperate and ready to surrender, all he had left that he could "do" was absolutely nothing. NOTHING. So he sat his ass down, quit trying to think through it all, and in so doing learned to simply BE.
So... maybe rethink some of what the "fanboys" have been saying, Steph... I don't think it's the oversimplified , pedantic nonsense you seemed to think it was. Yes, by all means find some help sorting things out and getting your head together. But, if you're going to use the Buddha as an example, and seek the fellowship and advice of buddhists and practitioners of the Buddha's way, then you really can't blame others for telling you to follow that example first and foremost. As Sasaki said, the only thing that fixes broken Zazen is... "More Zazen."
All that said, I sincerely hope things look better to you and for you. Can't offer much in the way of advice, but I do offer my empathy and best thoughts.

[johnny]

Re: Despair

He tried "doing" all sorts of things, and had finally come to the place where, desperate and ready to surrender, all he had left that he could "do" was absolutely nothing. NOTHING. So he sat his ass down, quit trying to think through it all, and in so doing learned to simply BE.

That's poetry right there my friend

[will]

Re: Despair

J
heads around it.

Or in it.

Questioning and wondering is ok at the beginning, that's what brings some of us to practice, but eventually you just have to stop and get down to business.

Gassho