For Zen History Wonks Only: Paper on Origins of Early Chan (Zen) in Chinese Daoism

[Jundo]

“Oblivion” sounds wonderful to me, so restful to forget our stories, thoughts, worries, obsessions, identities, just sit and fugettaboutit. Not to be confused with a dull state of inattention of course. Just a gentle releasing. What freedom!

...

I won't even ask about The Dark Learning (cue Darth Vader theme music).

Yes. I am sure that "Oblivion" is another very misleading word choice. It is probably something closer to "Emptiness" in meaning, that which is experienced when the mind is freed of "stories, worries, obsessions, identities," likes and dislikes, thoughts of this and that.

I want to emphasize that Daoism is not the same as Buddhism, but rather, when Indian Buddhism was translated to Chinese culture through a Daoist lens, the result was something well on the way to becoming Chan/Zen. I would call Zen a successful hybrid of both parents, although it is also Buddhism through and through.

The "Dark Learning" mentioned is also a strange name, although something well known to scholars of Chinese history. The Kanji is really better translated as "mysterious and profound", and is simply a reference to later forms of Daoism which became known as "neo-Daoism", which is what we are discussing in this article. The "dark" is not in the sense of "evil" or the like.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/neo-daoism/

Gassho, J

[Nameless]

It seems many terms have negative connotations in English. Dark, emptiness, no self. To someone unfamiliar with the lingo, we probably sound like we should be wearing black and reading beat poetry in a smokey night club.

Gassho, John
Sat Today

[Kyonin]

Thank you Jundo.

Great read for a silent morning and a huge cup of coffee

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Shokai]

Ah so; I've been aware of the blending of Dao and Buddhism for some time. However, it is intersesting to read how the originds are believed to have evolved. Thank you for sharing this Jundo.
gassho

#sattoday

[Troy]

For Zen History Wonks Only: Paper on Origins of Early Chan (Zen) in Chinese D...

Hi, interesting article. I am glad things have changed and Buddhism is available to us lay folk now too! A light that beautiful needs to be shared. I really don't know much of the history so there may have been some element of lay practice in the past. Perhaps not as much as today though?

I don't know much about Daoism. It sounds fascinating. There seems to be a lot of parallels with Buddhism. I am curious about the Dao concept of the Absolute. From that short reading, it sounds like something I would like to learn more about. Any recommendations on a good Dao for beginners book?


..sat2day•

[Nameless]

Hey Troy,

Tao Te Ching is a seminal work in Taoism. Then there's also the Zhuangzi. Can find the Tao The Ching online, not sure about Zhuangzi though.

Gassho, John
Sat Today

[Byrne]

I love the history stuff. Buddhism and Zen is such an incredible dialogue amongst culture's through time.

Gassho

Sat Today

[RichardH]

Thank you, Jundo. Very much enjoy the subject. I always saw a Daoist influence in the fresh already-arrived quality of Zen. Indian Buddhism does not seem to have that, at least Theravadin Buddhism, where there can be a forlorn sense of remote truth.

Gassho
Daizan

sattoday

[Troy]

Hey Troy,

Tao Te Ching is a seminal work in Taoism. Then there's also the Zhuangzi. Can find the Tao The Ching online, not sure about Zhuangzi though.

Gassho, John
Sat Today

Thanks John! I download a free copy of the Tao Te Ching from iBooks today on my lunch break. I read the first couple chapters. It resonated well with me. I can't wait to read more


..sat2day•

[Sekishi]

Thank you for this post Jundo. I arrived at Zen via Taoism, so this has a very personal meaning for me.

Gassho,
Sekishi
#sattoday

[Byrne]

In Chinese Taoist texts I've always wondered about what is meant by the word Heaven and whether it applies to Zen practice.

[Daitetsu]

Hi Troy,

Thanks John! I download a free copy of the Tao Te Ching from iBooks today on my lunch break. I read the first couple chapters. It resonated well with me. I can't wait to read more

Just an important note: There are big differences between the various translations of the Tao Te Ching.
I read several of them, and IMHO (and in the opion of other "modern Taoists" I came across online) the Mitchell translation is one of the best:

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html

There is also a good translation by Tim Freke, but that is a bit more difficult to get (out of print AFAIK).
The parallels to our practice are striking indeed, but there still are differences, of course...

I am aware that I've been saying this a lot at Treeleaf, but IMHO the Tao Te Ching is a "must read" for every Zennie.
Have fun!

Gassho,

Daitetsu

#sat2day


PS: Thanks a lot for this link, Jundo!

[Jishin]

For Zen History Wonks Only: Paper on Origins of Early Chan (Zen) in Chinese D...

Hi,

Dao # 1 rocks!

Gassho, Jishin, _/st\_

[MikeTango]

Thank you Daitetsu for the link,
I really love read the Tao Te Ching but I left my paper book at home and I ddin´t have any electronic copy with me here.
I really appreciate it.
Gassho
Miguel
#Sat Today

[Troy]

Hi Troy,



Just an important note: There are big differences between the various translations of the Tao Te Ching.
I read several of them, and IMHO (and in the opion of other "modern Taoists" I came across online) the Mitchell translation is one of the best:

http://acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu/~phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html

There is also a good translation by Tim Freke, but that is a bit more difficult to get (out of print AFAIK).
The parallels to our practice are striking indeed, but there still are differences, of course...

I am aware that I've been saying this a lot at Treeleaf, but IMHO the Tao Te Ching is a "must read" for every Zennie.
Have fun!

Gassho,

Daitetsu

#sat2day


PS: Thanks a lot for this link, Jundo!

Hi Daitetsu,

Thank you for the heads up on the translations. The one I got was translated in 1919 by Dwight Goddard. It has fallen out of copyright so it is in the public domain for free. I don't if it is a good one? Thank you for the link to Mitchell's translation. I will check it out. At some point, I would like to find a book with some commentary too.


..sat2day•