No 'I' ... No 'Know'...

[dharmasponge]

Hi everyone,

I was sitting this morning and something came to me 'out of the blue'.....actually more like out of the cold darkness - its freezing here right now!

I noticed my mind not so much seeking for experience but waiting for it. I saw the predilection for it to gauge the session by how much I had become unaware of my body - this 'off sensation' happens as you know naturally as the session proceeds.

Then it occurred to me that when 'I notice' there is 'I' present.....the presence of this 'I' felt contrary to the practice and then....

...I thought any experience of any worth in Zazen would by implication be devoid of this 'I'. But then how would 'I' know and to whom would it be of worth?

I have heard many people in here say that they have noticed a reduction in their clinging etc since sitting so there is clearly a benefit of sorts to be had - albeit by proxy.

What are you thoughts?

Can the 'I' be present and the experience be wholesome?

[Ongen]

...I thought any experience of any worth in Zazen would by implication be devoid of this 'I'. But then how would 'I' know and to whom would it be of worth?

In my experience, at that moment, there is no need to know, no need for an 'I' to know, and no value to give to the 'thing' you talk about.
The next moment, perhaps, when we are less 'in the zone' and I seems to be back, a delusional value is added to that 'thing'. Yet this is what makes us use right action and all the other 'rights', and so I believe there's nothing wrong with having that value, and an I to value it. As long as we don't start to believe it's all real.

My answer to your question would be yes. And no.

Gassho

Vincent

[Jundo]

"I" would forget the whole "thing". Just relax, give up all this analysis and just sit. "I" think "you" think too much about "I".

Gassho, J

SatTodat

[dharmasponge]

'I' suspect 'you' may be 'right' Jundo....

[Kyonin]

Hi!

As of late I have been having pretty interesting experiences in zazen. I can't really put into words, but all I can say is that I disconnect from the body and it feels too small to house me. This lasts for a few moments (I think), and then comes emptiness.

At first I was freaked out and scared. Then I realized I was looking for too many explanations and logic. When I dropped all that and came to terms with it, I was at easy with all of it.

Is that an "I" while we sit? I have no idea. I just drop it all and transform myself into a tiny grain of sand in the cosmic beach.

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jundo]

[Byokan]

Hi All,

truly, there are a lot of interesting things that can happen during sitting: physical sensations, mental gymnastics, emotions welling, mystical states of astral projection into multiple space/time dimensions, etc. And some of them are good to look into after zazen is done. They may bring insight into how better to live, or what needs looking after in one’s life. For instance, if a certain emotion or thoughts of a certain situation keep coming up, it might be good later to think about it and figure out how to improve that situation. You may rise from the cushion and realize you need to do something about something -- apologize to someone, change jobs, go back to your therapist, start doing yoga, whatever. That’s great.


But “I” think that if you look at this stuff and think you’re going to learn anything about shikantaza, you’re mistaken. Am I doing it right? Um, no. Is this a good sign? Nope. Am I getting closer to some breakthrough or insight? No, so sorry! Because if you’re asking these questions, you are not doing shikantaza. You’re just asking questions about thoughts and sensations. Take your thoughts and sensations and use them to figure out what you should do next Tuesday. But don’t apply any of it to figuring out how to better your sitting. Leave your sitting alone. Leave it! Let. It. Be. Work hard in your daily life to improve yourself and everything around you. But do not work at sitting! Sit down on a cushion and be quiet. Just sit and drop everything as best as you can, allow yourself to be there as you are, and then do it again later, and then again, for the rest of your life.


There’s no enlightenment for “me.” A pebble in the driveway is more enlightened than “I” can ever hope to be. This is not an exaggeration. “You” cannot get it right by any means of striving. There’s no progress to be made and no prize to be won. If you are trying to get shikantaza right, if you are trying to improve it, or to understand it, by examining your thoughts and sensations, you are only creating separation, and moving farther away than ever. Sit down and be quiet; let this stillness and silence begin to repair the cracks in the universe.


Your practice is absolutely perfect. Exactly as it is. You are the practice and the fruits of the practice.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

p.s. Rant from a newbie! Bring in the caravan of truckloads of salt.

[Jundo]

Lisa, you always have such a fine touch in expressing and helping folks. A gift.

Folks, just listen closely to what she says.

Gassho, J

[Byokan]

No gift, you are too kind, Jundo. Just stuff I'm learning from everyone here.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[Mp]

Lisa, you always have such a fine touch in expressing and helping folks. A gift.

Folks, just listen closely to what she says.

Gassho, J

I agree ... a truly pure gift. Thank you Lisa for that wonderful expression. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#sattoday

[Ongen]

That sure was a good read
Happy morning to all whenever the first occasion arises!

Gassho

Vincent
Sat today


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jinyo]

' Sit down and be quiet; let this stillness and silence begin to repair the cracks in the universe. '


Beautiful words Lisa, thank you.




Willow


sat today

[Kokuu]

' Sit down and be quiet; let this stillness and silence begin to repair the cracks in the universe. '

I love this too. Beautiful!


Kokuu

[Jishin]

Then it occurred to me that when 'I notice' there is 'I' present.....the presence of this 'I' felt contrary to the practice and then....

...I thought any experience of any worth in Zazen would by implication be devoid of this 'I'. But then how would 'I' know and to whom would it be of worth?

Awakening is the biggest joke in the universe.

Gassho, Jishin

#SatToday

[Dosho]

Some wonderful gems here! Thanks to all.

Deep bows.

Gassho,
Dosho

Sat today