Proposal for Sangha Discussion: "SAT TODAY!" - Sitting Before Talking

[Byokan]

Hi All,

I think it’s clear that a majority of people are in favor of keeping “sat today”, and that this is something our Teacher feels will be beneficial.

There does seem to be an unspoken question lurking here, so I will be the devil’s advocate and ask it: if this is a hard and fast rule, how will it be enacted or enforced? Say someone is coming in and posting, and not discussing any trouble with sitting, and yet still not sitting after 3 months. What happens? A public discussion? A strongly worded PM? Ban from the forum?

I only ask because the question seems to be sitting there like an elephant in the room. I have no objection to the rule.

Gassho
Lisa
sat today

[FabianS]

Thank you, Bryson! Warm words that gave me once more a soft reminder.
I tend to post a little too often, that's a bad habit of mine. I still need to focus more on when it is adviseable or needed to really say something and when it is best to simply ackknowledge something in silence.
I very much like the idea of the "Sat Today" and already try to remmeber it, because it shares a community feeling and motivates. I came to this place to have the opportunity to sit with others. And even that simple Tag seen when browsing a few topics here gives a little boost.

Gassho, Fabian
#SATTODAY

[Anshu Bryson]

I treat this 'place' as I would a bricks-and-mortar building. If I were attending a 'physical' zendo, I would be sitting. I might have some peripheral social contact with other members before and after zazen, or outside the building altogether if I have a friendship, but not 'in' the zendo...

And as far as sitting goes, I would be SEEN to be sitting. As far as the 'declaration' is concerned, the only way Jundo knows if I am sitting is if I tell him (and the only way he knows I am NOT sitting is if I tell him); he shouldn't have to assume. So I am happy to tell him. And if that helps support someone else's practice, that's a bonus...

I don't see this forum as a message forum or a social network, but as a 'place', as a 'virtual zendo'. There are plenty of social networking opportunities outside of this 'place'; if I needed a hug, I'd go there. I need to practice; I come here. If the teacher tells me to jump, I dont ask "why?", I ask "how high?"... (from the famous koan: "What is the height of one man jumping...?")

Gassho,

Bryson

sat today

[Jundo]

Hi Aske,

The wife beating alcoholic who does not sit will be perfectly welcome (although not encouraged in that lifestyle) for the first few months. No need to comply. After that, he would be expected to sit if coming here.

Gassho, Jundo

[Meikyo]

Hi.

My attitude towards this has not changed much. I'm a little ambiguous.

I am personally slightly put off by a obligatory standing rule. I wish this forum to stay open as resource to anyone with a sincere interest in what is discussed here regardless of whether they choose to follow some set standard or not. Ideally no one should be barred. Even strictly non-sitting wife-beating alcoholics with a purely academic interest in the history of Zen clergy should be welcomed. Although of course encouraged to drop these bad habits and start sitting. Ideally! As long as people are both respectful and remotely interested in what we do I really see no problem. One should also try to share knowledge with the not-so-willing recipients if one truly believes it can help them. Ideally.

On the other hand I can fully respect and emphasize with Jundo's point of view. A place for Practice not Zenny social club! A standing "sat today"-rule will with a little force up the standard of Practice and Practitioners here. What will happen then long-term I think is that Treeleaf will be a place for serious Zen students and not for people "interested in Zen". The folks not truly dedicated to Practice will be slowly weeded out. This is fine with me. I came to have a Practice and not to play at one.

Bottom line: "Sat Today" is helpful to Practice and has helped me personally though I'm not entirely fond of all of its implications. I will trust and respect the verdict of my Teacher and the Sangha.

Gassho
Aske
#Sat Today.

[lorax]

Hi

Willow says in one of her recent posts "I think if the rule stands it will change the nature of the message board and possibly the nature of the sangha". Yup, probably so. This Sangha has been in a state of constant change over the years I have been a member. Treeleaf has been and will continue to change and grow. I think this recent request from Jundo regarding sitting before chatting is another growth spurt. Resisting change is a sure path to suffering. As my little grand daughter says.."let it go, let it go..."

SAT TODAY

Hi Ka,

This is not a playground or coffee house or social club or disco.

This is a Dojo, a Practice Place for Practice.

One does not go to a Karate Dojo for the soda and donuts, and one does not come here without Sitting.

I hope that is clear by now.

Gassho, Jundo

Thank you, Jundo! I can hear your clear voice now. Very deep bows.

Gassho,
Ka

#SatToday

[Oheso]

the new posting rule did not affect my sitting practice at all, but it perhaps curbed my inclination to post, believe it or not.

to me it seems that the atmosphere of the boards has become a little unfriendly, with SHOUTING FONTS and I will not if you do not and such, and so much preaching to the choir.

I wouldn't deny the support or inspiration gained by any to them. if it helps any practice, that's good. if it hurts or hinders, not so good.

gassho, O, who sat today and daily sits.

[Jundo]

[RichardH]

I do like the many creative variations in writing "Sat Today" that folks have come up with. That's great.




Sattoday!

Came up with these variations..

Done Sitted

Gone Done Sat Today

Top-O-the Sittin' Today

Sat like a splat today

Velvety Sit Today

Sat 'n' figited

Sat Perched

Sat Poached

Sat-isfied

Sitting and spinning

....



Gassho
Daizan

Sat-with-acid-reflux-and-toe-cramp-and-nodding-off-today....ok

[Jishin]

then I get night fever, night fever.
We know how to do it.
Gimme that night fever, night fever.
We know how to show it....

Ooops, wrong place.

Gassho, Jishin

#SatToday

[Kyonin]

This is not a playground or coffee house or social club or disco.

This is a Dojo, a Practice Place for Practice.

One does not go to a Karate Dojo for the soda and donuts, and one does not come here without Sitting.

Gassho, Jundo

I couldn't agree more

Gassho,

Kyonin
#SatToday

[Jundo]

Hi Willow,

I do not think a designated place is workable, but this whole Forum will always be open to folks who say "look, stuff is going on right now, I cannot sit as much as I wish and I am having difficulty". Of course, they will always be welcome.

I will be posting a sticky thread to explain the "rules" of all this, and I will make that clear. After folks have been around here a few months (not newcomers), hopefully they will notice and catch on. If not, we will give them a gentle explanation after a few months.

Gassho, J

[Jinyo]

Hello Jundo,

Thinking back it has always been clearly stated that the expectation/rule is that we sit once a day for ten minutes (at least).

That clearly evaporates for some
(myself included for periods of time) not because of resistance to sitting but for lots of reasons of health, family worries/duties. etc .

I think I gravitated more to the message board during these times as a comfort/comforting zone even if I was just reading , not contributing. So - on reflection - I do think it's important to have a designated place for those difficult times so that members don't fall off the radar.

Will it be that in the introductory email, that is sent out, that the sitting before chatting will be more heavily emphasised and also that it is obligatory for members to write 'Sat today' after their postings?

In a way - this is only a minor - but very significant - change to what is already clearly set out and will define Tree Leaf very clearly as a Dojo - which presumably is what brought us all here - or at least is why we stay?

Gassho

Willow

Sat Today

[Jundo]

Hi Ka,

After folks have been here for a few months, I would ask them to say "SatToday". Yes, it would be obligatory to sit and report "SatToday" before posting on this Forum. Yes, folks should be and are expected to be sitting before chatting here about sitting. If they do not sit, then they should not chat.

This would not include folks who are having some difficulty sitting, and need access to the Forum in order to discuss that difficulty.

The reason we are here is because we want to be, so wouldn't it be obvious that we ARE sitting? Or at least when we do sit, often, daily or occasionally, would that be an admission of what type of practice we have?

No, it is not obvious. One is free not to sit and to sit less than daily (I cannot prevent that) ... but by the same token, one should not come here until having sat that day. Members of this Sangha are asked to sit daily. You come here, so that means you have sat. I hope some people feel bad and are motivated, sorry if it chases some folks away (farewell, and maybe you can find some place less demanding) ... and I sure hope nobody lies ... but:

... Let me shout from the rooftop:

This is not a playground or coffee house or social club or disco.

This is a Dojo, a Practice Place for Practice.

One does not go to a Karate Dojo for the soda and donuts, and one does not come here without Sitting.

I hope that is clear by now.

Gassho, Jundo