Proposal for Sangha Discussion: "SAT TODAY!" - Sitting Before Talking

[Byokan]

Hi All,

Isn’t it interesting to see what arises as we consider this? There’s a lot of “I” here: I want to be a good student, I don’t want to be told what to do, I am a good or bad sitter, I don’t like to be compared, etc. As an exercise, it’s already got us thinking and feeling, and it’s only been a day.


Bottom line for me is, if Jundo or Taigu or the Unsui asked me to wear my shoes on the wrong feet for a day, I’d have my doubts, and I’d probably be pretty uncomfortable, but I’d give it a try, practice with it, and then report back. Maybe I’d only make it 10 minutes and say to heck with this! Maybe I’d learn something. Maybe it would be an idea that went nowhere. But I trust our teachers so I’d give it a sincere effort, if nothing else just out of respect.


After all, Jundo only asked us to try it for a month. If it turns out to be dividing or distracting or detrimental, we’ll find that out together and move on.

Gassho
Lisa

[Ongen]

Haha! Daizan, I already have the 'auto sit today' installed in my daily life. It's a virus really, hard to get rid of

I am very sympathetic to this idea.

Gassho

Vincent

#SatToday


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alan.r]

What Daizan and John said.

Gassho,
Alan
Sat today (ps: will probably forget to write this often).

But it is the teacher's business if I have been sitting or not. No practice center says practice is whatever I feel like. Usually it is pretty definite, and in one case I had it reinforced with shrieks. A sitting tag is a reminder, and not heavy handed. The teacher here is not overbearing or a threat to independence or individuality.

Also... this is an online sangha that makes use of a message board. The internet has plenty of Buddhist message boards where people talk and may never sit at all, just read and think about it, maybe think it's figurable and that they've figured it. Maybe think they've figured it and are gonna tell everyone. Having a tag on this message board can be reminder that this is not about that.

Just some thoughts

Nice thoughts Daizan. =)

Gassho
Shingen

#SAT TODAY

[Meishin]

Hi,

One ritual I appreciated in the sangha where I previously practiced was "kentan." Each morning we faced the wall and the Roshi walked behind us. As he reached us, we raised our hands in gassho. For me it meant that I was fully present. This preceded all else, certainly any discussion that would have followed zazen. I realize this is not the same as what we are discussing but perhaps it is similar. To me Jundo's suggestion is that before the philosophical discussions, before the interesting tidbits or even the complaints, we acknowledge why we are here. Just my opinion.

Gassho
John sat today

[Myoku]

Truly, I not feel this is a great idea, I'm sorry. I think we should just not talk so much. point. Jundo already have a reminder up every now and then that we should not chit chat. I think we should just DO that (or in this case NON-DO the talking/posting) consequently. However, if it should be it should be ...
Gassho
Myoku (sat today)

[Anshu Bryson]

But it is the teacher's business if I have been sitting or not. No practice center says practice is whatever I feel like. Usually it is pretty definite, and in one case I had it reinforced with shrieks. A sitting tag is a reminder, and not heavy handed. The teacher here is not overbearing or a threat to independence or individuality.

Also... this is an online sangha that makes use of a message board. The internet has plenty of Buddhist message boards where people talk and may never sit at all, just read and think about it, maybe think it's figurable and that they've figured it. Maybe think they've figured it and are gonna tell everyone. Having a tag on this message board can be reminder that this is not about that.

Just some thoughts

Gassho
Daizan

"What Daizan said"...

Gassho,

Bryson

Just sat...

[RichardH]

My reply to an anticipated response: Yes we're a community that focuses on actual Practice and and participation. But Practice is many things. And the focus of Practice is people. We should not force them by peer pressure or them or bar them from speaking their mind. Even if they don't behave as we think they ought to!

But it is the teacher's business if I have been sitting or not. No practice center says practice is whatever I feel like. Usually it is pretty definite, and in one case I had it reinforced with shrieks. A sitting tag is a reminder, and not heavy handed. The teacher here is not overbearing or a threat to independence or individuality.

Also... this is an online sangha that makes use of a message board. The internet has plenty of Buddhist message boards where people talk and may never sit at all, just read and think about it, maybe think it's figurable and that they've figured it. Maybe think they've figured it and are gonna tell everyone. Having a tag on this message board can be reminder that this is not about that.

Just some thoughts

Gassho
Daizan



ps. later gonna set up the auto- sat today- since I have to sit every day or else i'm insane.

[Jundo]

not protesting, not disagreeing or denying your right to run the place according to your wishes, but there seems a definite change of tone here. trying to understand and trying to understand how your concern here is actually being addressed with the new posting requirement.

gassho, O, who sat today, and yesterday and yes, what a pity to say so!

Hi Oheso,

It has actually been the way of this place since the start ... sitting first and foremost. Talk only in furtherance of that.

I just think this is a positive way to support each other.

However, I also want to be a bit strict about it. Sit ... then shoot the shi ... breeze.

I wasn't able to sit before posting, like today

I think it means within the past day, not literally today.

Anyway, the purpose of this is to be mutually supportive and show the team spirit ... but also a bit strict too.

Gassho, J

[Ongen]

Proposal for Sangha Discussion: "SAT TODAY!" - Sitting Before Talking

It's a good idea to try out. Not sure if it would work the way you intend.

Personally I sit morning and evening when I can, but I will continue to post even when I wasn't able to sit before posting, like today

Gassho

Vincent

#WillSitTonight


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[Oheso]

This Community is about sitting. If someone is not willing to sit, then I am not willing to chit-chat.

not protesting, not disagreeing or denying your right to run the place according to your wishes, but there seems a definite change of tone here. trying to understand and trying to understand how your concern here is actually being addressed with the new posting requirement.

gassho, O, who sat today, and yesterday and yes, what a pity to say so!

[Jinyo]

Gassho
Daizan

So is it Ok if those of us who'd like to use the emptiness symbol.

I think it looks more friendly - lacking the 'I' - not focused on words and hits the point of trying this.

I understand some of the objections raised but I think the spirit of this idea is very positive.

You see - already it has changed my attitude. I logged onto Tree Leaf today - read the messages - went to type a reply and thought 'hang on a minute - I haven't sat today - will I make time to do this? If I've got time to type a message then I've got time to sit for 10 mins - even if I don't feel like it - even if there's resistance.'

Just now I'm ill in bed - this is quite often the norm for me. I only share this because my 'sitting' is never how we might envisage the norm. On a good day I might be able to sit upright from the waist up - but usually I'm having to semi-recline. I used to think this was a bit of a barrier - felt inferior - don't own a zafu - can't use a zafu, etc Of course - that's all nonsence. We sit with 'intention' - and we sit to actualize Buddha nature. Can we sit with intention by simply turning away from our computer screens and participating in Zazen for 10 mins - yes - I think so.


We often say what we love about tree Leaf is that it is more than a forum - more than a message board. I see this experiment as introducing a bit of discipline (I'm definitely in need of that).

So - maybe when we log on here we try seeing it as walking into a zendo. We pause for a while - see it as a meditative space - sure there's still time for a discussion - but in a bricks and mortar zendo wouldn't that take place after meditation. Would we protest and say -'no - I want to talk first?'

I can't imagine there's any judging in this - I'm using it as an opportunity to reflect on my own practice.

Gassho

Willow

[Jundo]

I'm down but I'm confused as to where we write this.

Like this?
Gassho,
Jeffrey
Sat today!

Hi Jeff,

I put mine in the footer to my postings so that it just appears automatically. However, I noticed that doing so makes it hidden in Tapatalk. So, I may just write it next to my signature.

I don't like the idea of people getting monitored, censored and judged on the basis of their personal Practice standards. Personal sitting standards are personal business unless you decide specifically to take them up. Just like how we deal with the Precepts and our stance on tradition vs. modernity in Zen. We can encourage and ask kindly but never demand anything of people.

I really do not want to engage in chit-chat or talk about "Zen" or offer advice to anyone who does not tell me that they have sat (except, of course, for people for whom life has made it impossible, or who are having difficulty with the sitting itself and need advice on that).

This Community is about sitting. If someone is not willing to sit, then I am not willing to chit-chat.

Gassho, Jundo

[Meikyo]

Hi.

Going a little against the stream of affirmations here.

I see the point of such an encouragement-reminder but feel very strongly that this should be kept strictly on a completely optional and voluntary level.

I don't like the idea of people getting monitored, censored and judged on the basis of their personal Practice standards. Personal sitting standards are personal business unless you decide specifically to take them up. Just like how we deal with the Precepts and our stance on tradition vs. modernity in Zen. We can encourage and ask kindly but never demand anything of people. It's assumed that if this thing means something to you and you feel you're learning then you'll stick around and do the sitting somehow. Because that's what we do! And that's enough. The rest is optional inquiry and encouragement for those who decide to really care.

I feel inquiry and (written) friendship amongst folks here should be encouraged regardless of how often and how long (and so on) a given person decides to sit. If it is kind, sincere, polite and well thought-through then it's a goody in my book. It's detrimental to the learning and spreading of a good message if there's poking or judging or stripping of the right to speak going on ad hominem. It's not our place to decide what is a good and bad reason for not sitting or what one's personal standard should be. If a person is truly interested and sincere then he'll (she'll) know. Otherwise one can ask for opinions and perspectives and possibly up or change their game.

I will have no "BIG ZENJI IS WATCHING YOU!"

I would feel very rebuffed and unwelcome if told by a Zen-colleague or Teacher: "Have you sat today? We will resume this friendly chat/interesting line of inquiry after you've sat!"
My sitting my business. Sometimes I need help. But not orders.

Of course as said before all this only applies if this "Sat Today"-initiative becomes required for posting etc. If it's only an optional reminder the Sangha collectively adopts then it's a great idea! Go for it. The above criticism of the proposal may seem rather harsh. It may be that I have misinterpreted the original proposal-post to mean something that is doesn't. If I have not though and what I write against is not a misunderstanding but what has been outlined then I have hereby protested. It's a really bad idea in my view.

My reply to an anticipated response: Yes we're a community that focuses on actual Practice and and participation. But Practice is many things. And the focus of Practice is people. We should not force them by peer pressure or them or bar them from speaking their mind. Even if they don't behave as we think they ought to!

Now. There's an opinion spoken with conviction. Time to sit.

With respect and gratitude.

Gassho
Aske

[Biko]

I'm down but I'm confused as to where we write this.

Like this?
Gassho,
Jeffrey
Sat today!