A Discussion About Race, Gender and Class

[jeff_u]

Thank you Daizan for your teaching.

Gassho,
Jeff

[alan.r]

Feeling drawn back to this thread again.. there are just a couple of things.

It is very fine to want to accommodate differences based on ethnicity and gender. But please do not forget the baseless and really unfortunate generalizing that is a subtext here. Who are you? Are you a type? This idea of privileged White Liberals is a caricature. I have suffered poverty, lived on the street, saw my father die penniless. (I'll talk about it sometime). I dealt drugs at 17 to survive, and have a two year black out period. No one is a stereotype or should be reduced to some picture of a lifestyle. No one.

Hmmm, not to speak for anyone else, but I certainly wasn't try to do that. I don't think anyone was/is trying to stereotype or pigeonhole, through subtext or not, though subtext can go both ways: if I could be reduced to some unfortunate generalized picture (which I'm equally averse to doing), I'd be the privileged white liberal caricature.

My final thought is this: racism exists and it sometimes leads to other social things/constructs/etc, which are not as obvious as blatant racism, and we should see it as we try to see all things, with care and compassion and awareness, while not being pushed or pulled by it, and then do whatever small things we can.

Gassho

[RichardH]

Hi Alan and Jeff. I'm sorry to come across as teachy or preachy. it is just feeling moved to say something. No one is intending to pigeon hole anyone here. I'm sure each and every person here is something amazing and rich who has seen so much. It is humbling. Gassho

[jeff_u]

Wasn't teachy The content of your post just "clicked" with me in the moment I was reading it and I was thankful. Cheers.

Gassho,
Jeff

[Jundo]

Feeling drawn back to this thread again.. there are just a couple of things.

It is very fine to want to accommodate differences based on ethnicity and gender. But please do not forget the baseless and really unfortunate generalizing that is a subtext here. Who are you? Are you a type? This idea of privileged White Liberals is a caricature. I have suffered poverty, lived on the street, saw my father die penniless. (I'll talk about it sometime). I dealt drugs at 17 to survive, and have a two year black out period. No one is a stereotype or should be reduced to some picture of a lifestyle. No one.

Second.. the Four Noble Truths, sitting upright, these basic things are no different for a woman or a man, a person of Chinese decent, or European. Buddhism started with an Indian, and has passed through every Asian ethnicity before landing here. So.. Identity politics will hopefully be put aside on the cushion, in the simple act of sitting.

It feels like Treeleaf is at a wonderful moment of rebirth and possibility. I hope there will be more woman taking ordination. That would be terrific.

Ok. that's all. gassho

We are, one and all, a unique Jewel in Indras's Net, and all live the hard times and have walked rough roads in their way and in their time. I just read an old Sutta this morning where one of the Arhats reminded a great King that even he is subject to Dukkha Suffering ...

Ratthapala Sutta

"And what do you think, great king: Are you even now as strong in arm & strong in thigh, as fit, & as seasoned in warfare?"

"Not at all, Master Ratthapala. I'm now a feeble old man, aged, advanced in years, having come to the last stage of life, 80 years old. Sometimes, thinking, 'I will place my foot here,' I place it somewhere else. ... I have a recurring wind-illness.[9] Sometimes my friends & advisors, relatives & blood-kinsmen, stand around me saying, 'This time King Koravya will die. This time King Koravya will die.' ...

"It's amazing, Master Ratthapala. It's astounding, how well that has been said by the Blessed One who knows & sees, worthy & rightly self-awakened: 'The world is without shelter, without protector.' For the world really is without shelter, Master Ratthapala. It is without protector.

The Buddha did not discriminate between rich or poor among his followers. If anything, he depended on the rich. In fact, one might say that without the rich, from the Buddha's time until today, there might be no vehicle for the Teachings ... because the rich overwhelming provided the land and shelter and clothes and food and other support for the Buddha's followers, Dogen's monks at Eiheiji and the capital for the monastery of about every other Buddhist Teacher in history from Thailand to Tibet to Toronto. The Buddha did teach one path for homeleavers ... having nothing much besides a robe on their back and a begging bowl. But he also taught another path for lay folks on whom Buddha & the Band depended to supply the robes, offer land for the monasteries, put food in those bowls. The Buddha taught laypeople that having a bit of wealth and opportunity is not a problem. HOW YOU USE THE WEALTH, RESOURCES AND OPPORTUNITY IS WHAT IS KEY (whether selfishly and wastefully, or for good and for the great society and others, family and community), as is not being a prisoner or driven by wealth and excessively attached to what one has. Buddha's basic point comes down to ... if one has wealth, use it for good purposes ... for social good ... don't live to excess ... and don't be attached. For such reason, Zen traditionally values the simple, intangible treasures of life ... the things which money cannot buy.

I wrote today on another thread about the Great Lay Bodhisattva Vimalakirti, a socially engaged rich man with an interest in responsible politics and governance ...

VIMALAKIRTI NIRDESA SUTRA

At that time in the great city of Vaishali there was a rich man named Vimalakirti. ... His mind was cleansed and purified through long practice of the Buddha Way, firm in its grasp of the Great Vehicle, and all his actions were well thought out and planned. He maintained the dignity and authority of a Buddha, and his mind was vast as the sea. All the Buddhas sighed with admiration, and he commanded the respect of the disciplies, of Indra, Brahma, and the Four Heavenly Kings. ... Though dressed in the white robes of a layman, he observed all the rules of pure conduct laid down for monks, and though he lived at home, he felt no attachment to the threefold world. One could see he had a wife and children, yet he was at all times chaste in action; obviously he had kin and household attendants, yet he always delighted in withdrawing from them. Although he wore jewels and finery, his real adornment was the auspicious marks; although he ate and drank like others, what he truly savored was the joy of meditation. ... He engaged in all sorts of businesses, yet had no interest in profit or possessions. To train living beings, he would appear at crossroads and on street corners, and to protect them he participated in government.

The Buddha also provided this guidance to a wealthy follower in the old Anana Sutta ...

Then Anathapindika the householder went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there the Blessed One said to him: "There are these four kinds of bliss that can be attained in the proper season, on the proper occasions, by a householder partaking of sensuality. Which four? The bliss of having, the bliss of [making use of] wealth, the bliss of debtlessness, the bliss of blamelessness.

"And what is the bliss of having? There is the case where the son of a good family has wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained. When he thinks, 'I have wealth earned through my efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of my arm, and piled up through the sweat of my brow, righteous wealth righteously gained,' he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of having.

"And what is the bliss of [making use of] wealth? There is the case where the son of a good family, using the wealth earned through his efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of his arm, and piled up through the sweat of his brow, righteous wealth righteously gained, partakes of his wealth and makes merit. When he thinks, 'Using the wealth earned through my efforts & enterprise, amassed through the strength of my arm, and piled up through the sweat of my brow, righteous wealth righteously gained, I partake of wealth and make merit,' he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of [making use of] wealth.

"And what is the bliss of debtlessness? There is the case where the son of a good family owes no debt, great or small, to anyone at all. When he thinks, 'I owe no debt, great or small, to anyone at all,' he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of debtlessness.

"And what is the bliss of blamelessness? There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones is endowed with blameless bodily kamma, blameless verbal kamma, blameless mental kamma. When he thinks, 'I am endowed with blameless bodily kamma, blameless verbal kamma, blameless mental kamma,' he experiences bliss, he experiences joy. This is called the bliss of blamelessness.

"These are the four kinds of bliss that can be attained in the proper season, on the proper occasions, by a householder partaking of sensuality."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....062.than.html

I do not see a problem with making the Dharma available to rich or poor ... but the question remains, how best to be inclusive of the poor, minorities, the downtrodden, etc. ? We must keep trying.

Gassho, J

[alan.r]

Hi Alan and Jeff. I'm sorry to come across as teachy or preachy. it is just feeling moved to say something. No one is intending to pigeon hole anyone here. I'm sure each and every person here is something amazing and rich who has seen so much. It is humbling. Gassho

No apology necessary, Daizan. I always learn from and appreciate your perspective. Only meant to add (and probably did so poorly, so my own apology) that I think most folks here were just trying to find ways to be more inclusive and to reach those who maybe don't have ways to reach out themselves, which seems like a worthy impulse. I would love to hear your own experiences sometime if you ever feel inclined to share.

Gassho

I do not see a problem with making the Dharma available to rich or poor ... but the question remains, how best to be inclusive of the poor, minorities, the downtrodden, etc. ? We must keep trying.

Gassho, J

Thank you for this simple expression of what, I think, we're all talking about.

Gassho

[Myosha]

Hello,

Jiyu Kennet says it well, "Total acceptance and education."


Gassho,
Myosha

[Sekishi]

Thank you all for your perspectives in this thread - wisdom and experience in many different forms. I know we do a lot of bowing and thanking around here, but really: Thank you all. Deep bows.

but the question remains, how best to be inclusive of the poor, minorities, the downtrodden, etc. ? We must keep trying.

Wonderful Jundo, that says it all, "we must keep trying".

In this, the season of Ango and Jukai, we will all face the ways in which we must take action in imperfect perfection: one crooked stitch after one crooked stitch, reviewing old hurts or fears about the future while trying to mindfully eat our meal, feeling the heat of anger while wondering how the heck we can turn it into a seed of tolerance and loving kindness. We have taken birth in Samsara, there is suffering at every turn. Beings are numberless, and we vow to save them all. We must keep trying.

Gassho,
Sekishi

[Jundo]

Originally Posted by Jundo View Post

I do not see a problem with making the Dharma available to rich or poor ... but the question remains, how best to be inclusive of the poor, minorities, the downtrodden, etc. ? We must keep trying.

Gassho, J

Thank you for this simple expression of what, I think, we're all talking about.

Gassho

I will say that, one reason I am interested in offering a simple, non-ritualistic Practice of Goalless "Just Sitting" as I describe here ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?12645-IMPORTANT-ANNOUNCEMENT-DISCUSSION-A-New-Structure-for-Treeleaf

... is because I believe that almost anyone can Practice so, rich or poor or in between, whatever someone's station or situation in life. ANYONE ... whatever their background or work or education or whatever ... can learn to "Just Sit" for a few minutes, dropping goals and encountering Wholeness ... and ANYONE can learn to start to bring that off the cushion (or chair) into the world of goals and disatisfactions. ANYONE can learn to start to see through the separation, attachments, frictions of the mind. We can make the common sense Wisdom and Compassion of the Precepts (even without calling them "the Precepts") available to folks too, at the very least for the peaceful, non-violent, non-greedy, socially concerned and involved, healthy lifestyle they present.

When we get past the outer packaging of statues and robes and arcane ceremony and bells and whistles, it may be a lot easier for folks from a variety of backgrounds who would "never be caught dead Buddhaing" to find a doorway into such Practice. It would be something anyone can do, anywhere. It would be something that preserves the basic and core discoveries and Traditions of the Buddha and Dogen, all in modern expression without so much of the religiousity and complexity that might actually OBSCURE the message for some. (On the other hand, some people might find their doorway PRECISELY IN the statures and robes and ceremony too ... so that should be available as well!)

ANYONE can non-do this Practice ... the cab driver waiting for a fare, the factory worker or farm worker on a moment's break, the doctor or school teacher, the artist or street musician, the rich man or fellow in the bread line (once he gets fed and sheltered at least ... we must not forget our duty to do that), the fellow in the hospital bed ... and anywhere from the Americas to Asia to Antarctica to Alpha Centauri and beyond.

Gassho, Jundo

[Daijo]

I think that in our lives, zen or no zen, we don't like to face certain realities. Certainly, even scientifically, there is no such thing as race and gender itself is just a classification. But we shouldn't deny the existence of racism, sexism, and class struggle by getting all "zenny" and looking at them as mere illusions of the mind. White male privilege is as real as the sun or the moon. We may not want to admit it, and I don't say we should run around carrying an unbearable burden of guilt, but it's a reality in the human world.

[RichardH]

I think that in our lives, zen or no zen, we don't like to face certain realities. Certainly, even scientifically, there is no such thing as race and gender itself is just a classification. But we shouldn't deny the existence of racism, sexism, and class struggle by getting all "zenny" and looking at them as mere illusions of the mind. White male privilege is as real as the sun or the moon. We may not want to admit it, and I don't say we should run around carrying an unbearable burden of guilt, but it's a reality in the human world.

Sexism, racism, differences in wealth and living conditions, are as real as any other conventional truth. Ideology is a powerful shaping of perception. The world according to a Marxist looks very different than the world according to a Conservative Christian. Like you said, we all have our illusions. We all do our best in the world we perceive. It's good to sit and drop the Big Picture and ideological agendas. Then maybe I can pick them up again without grasping or acting from fixed ideas.

Gassho
Daizan

[jeff_u]

I agree that these -isms are very real. If, say, racism disappeared tomorrow from everyone's mind the world would be a better place, absolutely. But in that vacuum it would become apparent to what extent it had pervaded the fabric of society: unintentional and intentional segregation, wealth inequalities, cultural biases, lack of opportunities, etc. We'd still have a lot of work to do because the very real structure of minds and institutions have been scaffolded with our isms. We can learn to see the emptiness of these structures, but we have to acknowledge that they are also as real as ground we walk on. Maybe this is where practice begins... realizing there is a lot of work to be done (lifetimes of it), but to just pick up the shovel and get to work. There's a lot of work to be done. Thank you everyone for sharing your perspectives on this thread.

Gassho,
Jeff

[Nameless]

Such an amazing thread! This Sangha rings like a bell to me. Speaking of bells, or the lack thereof, I'm excited about the upcoming experiment and will dive in wholeheartedly.

Anyway, I digest; Treeleaf's online format makes it possible to completely overlook things like race and color. Through this medium we are almost formless, our physique revealed only through pics and G+. This Sangha also makes it possible for the introverted to find a place to practice that feels like home. We are passing through may barrierless barriers here, and it's astounding. I tell people about Treeleaf whenever they ask me what Zendo I go to, or if they mention that they, like me, are miles away from one. A woman from Iran took a lot of interest in the idea. Zen is practically unheard of over there.

While race and gender are not an issue here, culture and societal norms may hold some back from practicing here and going to in-person retreats. Minorities who live in poverty and can't afford the internet are hindered by society. Others who feel that they can't practice because they have no self-confidence, are worried about what their friends/family will say, or are told that they are inferior are subjected to such by culture. A solution to this impediment would not just require Treeleaf to make changes, but cultures and societies themselves would have to change.

Plus, many minorities have already found personal spiritual solace through another path. The suffering seek peace. Each culture is tied to certain predominate faiths and practices. Zen is still rather new to this country. We are riding some of the first waves right now. As it settles in, it'll HAVE to reflect Western culture, just as it's reflected the culture of everywhere it's been. We have the unique opportunity to help this process along. Buddha often spoke differently to different people (expedient means) so that he could express the Dharma to them. Zen seems to be just like that. So, as time goes on more and more minorities and women will join in.

Gassho,
John

[Meikyo]

Hello everybody!

Thank you for such a thought-provoking and important thread.

A few comments. As always they are personal views only. They echo what has already been said.

Realistically we cannot hope to reach everyone. The starving children of Zimbabwe and the Syrian refugees have more pressing things on their minds. Some can't do Zen in earnest or regularly for various practical reasons like those a fore mentioned and some won't. (maybe they have a Path they're perfectly happy with). We cannot either as individuals nor as a Sangha miraculously change world events. My point is that some minimum measure of stability security and peace must be in place before a steady practice can be taken up. But! Granted most people ( who I can fathom in my very limited white European upper-class perspective anyway) can indeed manage to do it somehow in some way. Trick is to keep track of the expectations so they don't grow out of proportion relative to what actually achievable.

The question then becomes: How do we best reach out to those both can Practice and want to? We must make sure the practice is accessible both in the totally practical sense (more communities, centers, webpages, magazines and what have you) and in the theoretical sense. In other words what is the true essence of the Teachings and what is their use (blablabla - I don't pretend to know for sure) and what's just BS and trappings added later.

Trappings can be used if they are conducive to the individual practitioner's learning process but one must never loose sight of their nature as trappings and optional add-ons. By presenting the Way in different ways to different people more become attracted and if the essence is preserved and not overtaken by the trappings people will feel the transforming and non-sectarian power of the Way and they will stay and carry it with them in their hearts further down the road regardless of background. I think Treeleaf is at the forefront of all this and that's wonderful. It certainly inspires me.

Blablabla. Just thoughts.

Thank you again.

Gassho

[Jishin]

When even for a moment you express the Buddha's seal in the three actions by sitting upright in samadhi, the whole phenomenal world becomes the Buddha's seal and the entire sky turns into enlightenment. Because of this all buddha tathagatas as the original source increase their dharma bliss and renew their magnificence in the awakening of the way. Furthermore, all beings in the ten directions and the six realms, including the three lower realms, at once obtain pure body and mind, realize the state of great emancipation, and manifest the original face. At this time, all things realize correct awakening; myriad objects partake of the buddha body; and sitting upright under the bodhi tree, you immediately leap beyond the boundary of awakening. At this moment you turn the unsurpassably great dharma wheel and expound the profound wisdom, ultimate and unconditioned. - Dogen - Endeavor of the way.

Everybody practices when I practice.

Gassho, Jishin