The F-bomb

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  • Jundo
    Treeleaf Founder and Priest
    • Apr 2006
    • 40350

    #31
    While I was looking around I found this lovely quote by Shunryu Suzuki Roshi on Faith/Trust, from one of his talks on the Lotus Sutra.

    It is in response to a student's question (and the grammar is left in the broken English he spoke, yet clear as a bell) ... Big Mind, Reality, sweeping in and sweeping out "faith" and "trust" and "subject" and "object" ...

    So,That's the Truth & Keep the Faith!


    ----

    Student F: In this chapter [of the Lotus Sutra] it says that—Buddha's speaking to his
    disciples and he says that they should evince the strength of great
    faith towards the dharma of the Buddha. How—how do you evince—
    ... —how do you acquire or evince strength of faith? How do
    you evince—how do you acquire or evince strength of faith? How do
    you acquire faith?

    Suzuki-rōshi: Acquire—how we acquire what—faith? Faith.

    Student F: Trust in the teachings.

    Suzuki-rōshi: Yeah. This is, you know, actually only one way, you
    know. We—if Buddhist put emphasis on faith, you may feel strange.
    So I am trying not to say "faith" or [laughs], you know, "belief." I am
    trying. But actually there is no other way, you know, to. In this point,
    I think all religion will be the same. And it is that—you know, the
    other day I explained in this way, you know: Eyes cannot see eyes,
    you know, although eyes can see many things, but eyes cannot see
    themselves. How eyes will know themselves is to put faith in it. And
    that is, you know, not to be involved in dualistic idea. You know,
    when we say, "Don't be involved in dualistic idea," it means that
    "Don't be involved in idea of object or subject." Actually, Buddhist put
    emphasis on this point. The ... difference between
    Hīnayāna teaching and Mahāyāna teaching is this point. The view of
    substantiality, you know, is to put object in front of ourselves and to
    say, "Here is a book."
    That is usual understanding, but is not real—is not complete and is not
    real. When we say, "Here is," you know, "this book," it means that,
    "Here is my mind." [Laughs.] "My mind is here," you know. "My
    mind is looking at it." When you reflect on yourself, you know, your
    mind is projected in objective world and you say "This is my mind,"
    but actually my mind—your mind is here [patting self], you know, not
    there. So my mind [patting self] is not something which you can see,
    which you can understand. When you understand in that way, my
    mind—you mind is all over. Wherever you see something, that is your
    mind also. Do you understand? My mind is there. Nothing can be
    just objective. It—things which we see is subjective and objective,
    and my mind is always working on it. In this sense, this is so-called-it
    "essence of mind." Mind which follows—which is everywhere, and
    mind which create everything. And that mind is not particular mind to
    our- [partial word]—myself or to you. It is more big mind; it is not
    small mind because it is everywhere.

    On what [laughs]—what was you question? [Laughter.] I lost your
    question [laughs, laughter].

    Student F: It was about faith.

    Suzuki-rōshi: Hmm?

    Student F: It was how to—how to acquire faith.

    Suzuki-rōshi: Faith, yeah—acquire faith. You know, that kind of
    mind, you know, is not the mind which you can put, you know, as a—
    which you can take as a face of object, you know, because everything
    is—that mind, you know, is on everything or in everything I don't
    know [laughs], but that mind is everywhere. Do you understand that
    mind? That kind of mind—to understand that kind of mind is just to,
    you know [laughs]—that is it, you know. No need to explain. But if—
    because you have always think or believe in something in term of here
    or there, or great or small, right or wrong, we must say something
    about it. But this is the ultimate truth which we should accept.
    You may say, "If we shut our eyes, even though we shut our eyes,
    things exist," you know. But that is some created idea by your mind.
    So where—whatever you do, wherever you go, that mind is—follows
    you, even though you don't figure out exactly what it is. So the only
    way is to put faith on it. Then you will have, you know, freedom from
    everything. That kind of mind is essence of mind. That kind of
    understanding is real understanding of emptiness.

    Maybe, you know, you don't accept [laughs] what I say right now.
    Maybe it takes time. Do you understand what I am saying?
    This kind of teaching is not Hīnayāna or Mahāyāna. It is ultimate
    truth. When Lotus Sūtra—knowing this point says—"you put faith in it"
    means you should know this—know this mind. This is essence of
    mind, or big mind. Okay? Did you understand [laughs]?

    So Buddhist doesn't, you know, accept any kind of mind, you know,
    except this mind. We don't accept just objective being or subjective
    being. We don't say mind create things, or things produce function of
    mind—mind-like function, or material first, or mind first. We don't say
    so. Whatever it is, it is mind and b- [partial word]—materialistic—
    material and spiritual. That is, you know—and we only discuss
    something which is both material and spiritual. This is the golden rule
    of Buddhism [laughs, laughter].
    ...

    Student G: The word "faith" is maybe not a good word.

    Suzuki-rōshi: No. No, not at all good. So I don't like to use that
    words—"faith," you know. It seems to have something [to do with]
    "to put faith in it," you know. It is not so, you know. All the—all the
    things we see is just good expedience of, you know—good means of
    suggesting the true ultimate reality. So not only Small Vehicle, but all
    the—all the teaching and all the being, whatever it is, it is good means
    of Buddha. Who is Buddha? [Laughs.] We don't know. It is not
    something we can describe. It is beyond description, but something
    we should—we have to, you know, believe in it. Without that, we
    cannot think, we cannot say anything, we cannot do anything.
    Nothing exist.

    To find out that essence of mind is—or how to talk about the essence
    of mind is good skillful means of Buddha. So he is always talking
    about [that] which is not possible to talk about. That is skillful mean—
    what it means by skillful mean. So for Buddhists there is no other
    teaching than skillful means. Whatever the teaching may be, that is
    just skillful means.

    Last edited by Jundo; 07-31-2014, 04:10 PM.
    ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLE

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    • Ishin
      Member
      • Jul 2013
      • 1359

      #32
      Thank you Taigu and Jundo, and Shunryu Suzuki.

      C
      Grateful for your practice

      Comment

      • Mp

        #33
        Originally posted by Clark
        Thank you Taigu and Jundo, and Shunryu Suzuki.

        C
        Yes, I too enjoyed that view from Suzuki Roshi! =)

        Gassho
        Shingen

        Comment

        • RichardH
          Member
          • Nov 2011
          • 2800

          #34
          Piping in here a little late...cause I thought F-bomb meant..you know, F-bomb, and there isn't much to add to an f-bomb.

          My own, strictly personal, view is that aversion to devotional practice is an unfortunate part of contemporary western Buddhism. For some years I was the bell ringer and basics describer for the local community of another Buddhist tradition. It was very common to have people show up because we were not mom and dad's church. That usually involved aversion to anything "religious". This troubled me because I have a religious character. A big part of practice especially early on was devotional... opening the heart, having the heart break in the presence of unconditional compassion. Was it dualistic? It involved imagination and contemplation...so I guess so, but it was what opened my heart.

          Once I wrote down this little note and sealed it with wax..



          Perfect Tathagata
          Beautiful Tathagata

          I open my heart to your blessing
          I open my mind to your dharma
          I have deep faith in your way



          When it was written it was real, and it is real. As real as anything. The presence of unconditional compassion, in whatever form, breaks the heart. That heartbreaking changed everything.

          Gassho
          Daizan

          Comment

          • Jinyo
            Member
            • Jan 2012
            • 1957

            #35
            Thank you for this thread Lisa,

            I spent some time yesterday wondering if to say one has a 'faith' or one has a 'practice' is the same thing?

            Like many members writing here I used to have a problem with the connotations of 'faith' as rooted in Christianity. A book that helped me a great deal is Thich Nhat Hanh's 'Living Buddha, Living Christ'.

            I've read this book twice and intend to read it again because I'm experiencing a softening of my defences and feel able to incorporate the notion of faith into my practice.

            Hanh writes ' In Buddhism, the source of our energy is faith in our daily practice ...... it is a kind of experiential faith.'

            and 'Our faith must be alive. It cannot be just a set of rigid beliefs and notions .... Faith implies practice, living our daily life in mindfulness.'

            This sits easy with me.

            Gassho

            Willow

            Comment

            • Hans
              Member
              • Mar 2007
              • 1853

              #36
              Hello,

              the original question and this thread in general are great reminders that part of our own journey of awakening has to do with recognizing and dealing with old patterns.

              There is nothing wrong with the word faith at all. There is nothing wrong with the word surrender either.

              What is interesting is to reflect on what it was that made us "attach" to a certain gut reaction when hearing/using a certain word. Different fingers point at the moon, often it is not the pointing finger that is blocking the moonlight, but "ourselves". Yugen already referenced mighty Seng Ts'an. Just stop picking and choosing

              Gassho,

              Hans Chudo Mongen

              Comment

              • Joyo

                #37
                Great discussion, thanks everyone. Jundo, Taigu, wonderful teaching. Much thanks

                Gassho,
                Joyo

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