Thank you, Jundo. Very helpful.
Gassho,
John
Gassho,
John
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Yes, thank you. I cannot hear some of these points often enough.
Gassho
AndyComment
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Dear Jundo,
I thank you very much. This was the point I was looking at. The answer is very helpful and it sounds clear. There is a narcistic part in me, which looks exactly on the "escaping" thing:
But isn´t that the story of Dogen in the film, that his mother said: Find a way out of this suffering.It is as if deep down we all hope that some experience, some great realization, enough years of dedicated practice, might finally lift us beyond the touch of life, beyond the mundane struggles of the world. We cling to some hope that in spiritual life we can rise above the wounds of our human pain, never to have to suffer them again. We expect some experience to last. But permanence is not true freedom, not the sure heart's release. Every wise voyager learns that we cannot hold on to the last port of call, no matter how beautiful. To do so would be like holding our breath, creating a prison from our past.
Isn´t the circle of zen describing something like that? Is the fact, that we are whole also a possibility to realize it in this life?
Just some questions for the brain. I know, that is not the important part. It is just a fact, that we suffer our whole life (even when our life is fine) becourse
the leaving of our parents, frends and people in our world.
gassho
ernstComment
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Dear Ernst,
The way out is the way in. The circle of Zen has nothing to do with a stable and constant peaceful state.
Our path is to fully penetrate Samsara, to wholeheartedly dive in that sea of fire. This is the path of Bodhisattvas.
To escape suffering generates more suffering. Resistance is pain inducing. You sit with guts and flesh an blood in the midst of life and death. This is our way. The realized universe is but this, ugly and beautiful and beyond both, "Beyond" means both dropped, here and now.
Gassho,
TaiguComment
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Hi Ernst,
I will say as Taigu, but in a little different words.
OF COURSE, this Path provides TOTAL RELEASE and LIBERATION RIGHT IN THIS LIFE! Dogen's mom was not lying! Do not misunderstand my point earlier. Most importantly, do not think of this as an "either/or" matter ... for Zen Teachers speak out of both sides of their no-sided mouth!
I would not be walking this Path so Contentedly after all these years if this Way did not Deliver! Liberation! YIPPEE! SVAHA!
Total Release from birth and death, disease, aging, and all forms of dissatisfaction ("Dukkha" in Buddhist terms). One experiences Such, Wholeness, Emptiness, where there are not such things, no lack, no friction.
But, so long as we are human in these bodies, we will not be free of birth and death, disease, aging and all forms of dissatisfaction!
(As I said, we talk out of both sides of our Empty mouth!)
Both at once ... somedays (depending on which side of the no sided bed I wake up on) ... a bit more one or the other, but always BOTH AS ONE!
So, as I believe Taigu is saying ... one encounters freedom from Suffering right behind, beyond, in, right at the heart of, precisely as suffering itself ... death and deathless at once, aging and ageless as one! The result is, for example, that one might grieve and cry at the loss of someone we love (for this is human and part of life) AND simultaneously know the Buddha who knows No Loss, No Death, No Separation right in each tear, the Heart Never Broken as our broken heart.
And with years of Practice ... we do get better and better at realizing such. (Realizing, although we say "nothing to realize" because such was here all along even though we were blind to the fact).
Perhaps a traditional Buddhist image will help ... the Lotus flower that rises from the shit and muck. However, do not think that the Lotus need break free of the shit and muck to be the Lotus. Far from it, a Lotus without the soil and fertilizer would be lifeless. Furthermore, our Zen Practice allows us to realize that Lotus flower and shit, shit and Lotus flower are never two all along.
Does that help? (Maybe not, because people say I am too hard to understand and I should be clearer).
Gassho, JundoLast edited by Jundo; 06-13-2014, 11:41 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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A bit more on the Lotus and Mud, another way of expressing the Blue Sky and Clouds ...
Before Buddhist Practice, we may be all lost in the mud and muck ... greed, anger, divisive thoughts and judgments, dissatisfactions. We wish to escape the suffering.
In many corners of Buddhism and other Eastern religions, the aim may be to nurture or grow some Lotus which would completely escape and break free of the mud and muck once and for all. The dirt of this birth and earth left far behind, never to return.
But Zen and other corners of the Mahayana found that one can grow the Lotus, escape and break free & continue to be in this world of sometime mud and muck AT ONCE. Of course, when doing so ... the mud is not quite so muddy, and a certain Clarity shines right through and as the muck! Somehow, we live in a world of mud and muck where often we are splashed with both ... yet somehow are not so stained. We are less prone to muck raking and mud tossing at others. The earth also appears as a jewel, the dirt and disaster as diamonds, when the mud is wiped from our eyes.
The Lotus grows amid-and-as the fertile dirt. A Lotus without the soil and fertilizer would be lifeless. Furthermore, our Zen Practice allows us to realize that Lotus flower and muck, muck and Lotus flower are never two all along.
Nonetheless, while staying rooted in this world, the beautiful flower also rises up and is Liberated ... firmly rooted, yet Totally Free as One. Although One, with time and Practice, we learn to live more flowering and less lost in the bog.
Many pictures depict a Buddha seated upon a Lotus Flower. I believe a better way is to see the Buddha and Lotus Flower as One and Whole, all firmly rooted on this earth below ... also one and whole ... a reflection of each as the other. The Buddha's reflection in the bog renders it as clear, still, embracing, peaceful as a fine mirror.
The Lotus is always present even when unseen, when still just a seed buried within us. Perhaps our Buddhist Practice is a way to water that seed and let it grow, breaking above the water line and reaching the light.
Of course, so long as we are human beings, the mud will rise and fall. Some days we may see more flower and less mud, some days less flower and more mud (even to the point of being lost for a time). Nonetheless, both are always present.
Under the water, though hard for us to see sometimes, all the Lotus Flowers prove to be joined at a single branching root, and water, mud, air, shit and shoots, birds, sky, light, flowers and all the garden are One, Buddha.
Perhaps our Zazen Practice is a way for us ... by clearing for a time some of the mud and muck in our heads ... to become a little more aware of the Lotus, less of the mud, for a time. It helps us come to see the Lotus in all of life.
Something like that.
Gassho, JLast edited by Jundo; 06-14-2014, 04:19 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Taigu, Jundo, my gosh!
This is like listening to Bird & Diz trading phrases.
Crystalline, radiant, brilliant. I am so grateful for this teaching.
Gassho
Lisa展道 渺寛 Tendō Byōkan
Please take my words with a big grain of salt. I know nothing. Wisdom is only found in our whole-hearted practice together.Comment
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Hi Jundo,
yes, it was the right answer at the right time for me. And I do not want to decide, if you are too hard to understand or not. I think, it is hard to understand.Does that help? (Maybe not, because people say I am too hard to understand and I should be clearer).
It is unbelievable, what an answer you are giving to a question like that. Thank you.
Is the Buddhist Practice reducibly to zazen?
Gassho
ErnstComment
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Yes, Buddhist Practice is -only- Zazen. There is nothing else. All time and space is also only Zazen. When sitting Zazen, Zazen is the only place in the universe, the only action. Zazen is all there is, all that needs doing or can be done in that moment, the total completion and fruition of life, nothing to add or take away from sitting. Please sit so.
No, Buddhist Practice is -not only- Zazen. Rising from the cushion, there may be some Buddhist book to read, some Chant, some Bow, some Precept to implement in a moral choice in life.
-Only- sitting is Zazen ... when sitting, there is just seating Zazen. There is nothing else. In fact, one might say when sitting, Zazen sits Zazen.
Zazen is -not only- sitting ... for, rising from the cushion, all of life is Zazen in its wider meaning. Changing the baby diaper is Zazen, work in the office is Zazen, cooking dinner is Zazen, going shopping is Zazen when perceived as such. When perceived as such, changing the baby diaper is the only action there is, all that needs doing or can be done in that moment, the total completion and fruition of life, nothing to add or take away
Each of the above is true at once. Is that clear?
Gassho, JLast edited by Jundo; 06-17-2014, 10:28 AM.ALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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thank you, it is clear (right in that moment). Doesn´t mean, that it will be clear tomorrow
When sitting and no struggling thoughts are here, just a meta-thought like hmmmm, is that already zazen in this understanding?
I read an article, where they say: "Just when you are in this thinking the non thinking is zazen. The rest is training.
I want also say thank you to Taigu. It is very helpful to have to kinds of "language".
gassho
ernstComment
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I remember Jundo saying something about focusing on the left side. Would that be in the palm of the left hand?
Elgwyn
sar today
GasshoPeaceful, Tai Shi. Ubasoku; calm, supportive,
for positive poetry 優婆塞 台 婆Comment
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Hi Elgwyn,
Perhaps the reference is to the fact that typically (probably a bias for right handers) Dogen described the Zazen Mudra as the right hand on the bottom, with the left hand resting on top. In his diary of his youthful travels in China, Dogen quotes his own Teacher, Ju-Ching, of saying to sit with the attention held in the palm of the left hand.
Gassho, J
SatTodayALL OF LIFE IS OUR TEMPLEComment
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Hi Jundo, I have been sitting zazen for about 2 years now. I still have the monkey mind during zazen almost all the time. I find your suggestion of "open, spacious sitting" easier to follow if I also have my attention on the breath. So while I sit, being aware of the thoughts, but trying to not get involved in daydreaming--- I focus on my breath and on letting the thoughts go. Is this a good way of doing it, or do you have any suggestions?
Gassho,
Joyo
sat today (again with a racing monkey mind)Last edited by Guest; 04-18-2015, 10:26 PM.Comment
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