Some thoughts about Buddhist converts

[Tiwala]

Disclaimer: I'm not saying all Buddhist converts (which I think is most of us here) are like this. Maybe some, that's me included.

I think the problem with most religious converts is they come to Buddhism, or any religion in particular, thinking that there's something to be fixed or there's something better. And that something more fulfilling than this world of coming and going is available if we gain something or sit enough or be good enough. It's always not quite enough. And although some teachers will flat out and directly say that there isn't, it still takes a very long time for me and others to really let it sink in.

In some ways, the people who practice the religions that they were born with and are content with it are kind of lucky. For example, some in Christian religions just live their lives as best they can while having faith that everything has a reason and they're ok with it. And they go on with their daily lives. It's us (well some of us!) who have the bad karma of having to go through all this just to realize that there's really really nothing to go to or to do.

Well, that's just my impermanent and imperfect opinion right now. Haha. If you ended up reading this far, thank you for reading this little passing thought. I wish you well.

[RichardH]

Hi Ben. It's strange, but the word "convert" doesn't come to mind when thinking of the Buddhists I know. No one converted. They just followed their noses and ended up where they are. Nothing was renounced. Nothing outside of themselves was taken on. There are formal commitments made at some point.. but it is always about following their own path. Maybe this is because I live in a very secular environment, where most people are not born into a strong religious identity?

Gassho Daizan

[Jundo]

Hi Ben,

OF COURSE there is something to be fixed and something better than our ordinary ignorant way of experiencing Samsara, this world of coming and going!! What makes you say there is not? That is why I "converted" to Buddhism some 30 years ago and why I have stayed, because it delivers what is totally fulfilling and always enough, fixed and much better!!

Gassho, Jundo

PS - Some folks may get confused because, in our Koany ways of talking out of both sides of our no-sided mouth, some of that finding and fulfilling occurs by dropping the hunger to hunt amid our subjective "not enough." It might be said that we "convert" to that which is endless converting yet always changeless!

[Daitetsu]

Hi Ben,

In some ways, the people who practice the religions that they were born with and are content with it are kind of lucky. For example, some in Christian religions just live their lives as best they can while having faith that everything has a reason and they're ok with it. And they go on with their daily lives.

In my experience most people who are like this have been indoctrinated their entire life.

As Krishnamurti put it:
"Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay."

When one learns to accept doubts instead of ignoring them this is a first step IMHO.

It's us (well some of us!) who have the bad karma of having to go through all this just to realize that there's really really nothing to go to or to do.

I would not call this bad karma. It is the way it is.
Some people are seekers and know it.
Some people think they are home, but either suppress their need to seek or find out after quite a while that they had not been home at all.
And some others have really found home after searching (that's when the questions have dropped after searching not out of fear).

And to end with another Krishnamurti quote:
All ideologies are idiotic, whether religious or political, for it is conceptual thinking, the conceptual word, which has so unfortunately divided man.

But that's just my opinion, man, as The Dude would say.

Gassho,

Daitetsu

[Kokuu]

Hi Ben

The only time I see this is in new 'converts' to a religion, or even to a political point of view, new favourite band or other such thing. They are so full of excitement about their new findings that they want to share it but mostly their enthusiasm outweighs their knowledge! Charlotte Joko Beck pointed out that newcomers to a Zendo often just replaced the idea that a new car/relationship/pair of shoes will make everything better with the notion that practice or being part of a sangha will do exactly the same. This settles down with time.

Conversely, I have noticed that people choosing a religious path rather than being brought up in it are often more dedicated and serious than those who are immersed in cultural belief. They have had to mnake an effort to seek out and learn this tradition rather than being handed it on a plate (especially before western dharma centres were widespread in Buddhism) so are more grateful for what it brings to their life.

Gassho
Andy

[Rich]

I've been converted to a way of life, a practice with life. Is that religion? My Buddha statues are just reminders.



Kind regards. /\

[Tiwala]

Hi Ben

I would not call this bad karma. It is the way it is.
Some people are seekers and know it.
Some people think they are home, but either suppress their need to seek or find out after quite a while that they had not been home at all.
And some others have really found home after searching (that's when the questions have dropped after searching not out of fear).

Ah wow. I did not think of it that way. Haha! Just goes to show how flexible our point of views are. Thank you.



Gassho, Ben

[Tiwala]

Hi Ben,

OF COURSE there is something to be fixed and something better than our ordinary ignorant way of experiencing Samsara, this world of coming and going!! What makes you say there is not? That is why I "converted" to Buddhism some 30 years ago and why I have stayed, because it delivers what is totally fulfilling and always enough, fixed and much better!!

Gassho, Jundo

PS - Some folks may get confused because, in our Koany ways of talking out of both sides of our no-sided mouth, some of that finding and fulfilling occurs by dropping the hunger to hunt amid our subjective "not enough." It might be said that we "convert" to that which is endless converting yet always changeless!

Delivers something Fulfilling, even if I feel it isn't so. Enough, even if there is a 'lack', Fixed, even if there is "coming and going", much Better, even if it appears to be the worst.

Perfect, perfect in the imperfections!

How very satisfying indeed!

I do have a problem, though. It's really hard to say in words!



Gassho, Ben

[Daitetsu]

Hi Kokuu,

Conversely, I have noticed that people choosing a religious path rather than being brought up in it are often more dedicated and serious than those who are immersed in cultural belief. They have had to mnake an effort to seek out and learn this tradition rather than being handed it on a plate (especially before western dharma centres were widespread in Buddhism) so are more grateful for what it brings to their life.

Totally agree with you.
It is also interesting that a lot of Atheists have a far better knowledge of the Bible than the average Christian - many of the former read it thoroughly and finally decided to leave it behind.
(At least this is the case in many European countries I know.)

Gassho,

Daitetsu

[Jakudo]

No "bad" Karma, no "good" Karma, just Karma! Also I've never felt like a convert as I've always been a Buddhist, it just took me some time to discover what label to use.
Gassho, Jakudo.

Sent from my GT-N8010 using Tapatalk

[Jishin]

Some thoughts about Buddhist converts

Jesus is Buddhist. He just doesn't know it yet.

Gassho, Jishin

PS: Jesus is Jewish too.

[Joyo]

I've been converted to a way of life, a practice with life. Is that religion? My Buddha statues are just reminders.



Kind regards. /\

I like this. If this topic comes up in my bible belt town, I just say I'm not religious. And, I don't really like going much further than that. This path speaks for itself.

Gassho,
Joyo

[senryu]

Maybe Tiwala/Ben is confusing causes and consequences.
I imagine many people don´t abandon their original religions, not because they are satisfied with their spiritual life but because they are not especially interested in everything which is not directly related to increase their income, prolong their physical surviving or directly reduce their pain and increase their pleasure. So clearly his decision doesn´t mean that they were more advanced in the task of adapting to the reality (to live the life as it is), or that they have a “better karma”. I think they just prefer to postpone any search in this area. On the contrary, there are other people that feel “there is something else outside”, like Neo asking himself about the Matrix.
Since they were more concerned about themes related with the search of a peaceful way, is probably that they are willing to assume their “spiritual tasks” with more enthusiasm. For that cause they could be more predisposed to search for more “spiritual activities” than just sitting. But eventually they will be convinced of that, because I feel is not religious faith, but knowledge. And in a general, I guess it´s impossible to arrive to this place without have walked the entire path, like in the ten oxherding pictures and the final return to the market.
Gassho
Senryu

[Entai]

I was raised in the Christian Church. However, I don't think I really understood Christianity until I began practicing Buddhism. I used to have a lot of animosity toward the Church, but now I get it and have dropped my negativity. Soto Zen Buddhism is where I'm at home. Convert or whatever, I think it's just a matter of where my heart and mind is pointed.

Gassho, Entai

[Kyotai]

Hi Entai

Similar for me as well.

Gassho

Shawn