A Nietzsche quote about thinking and ego

[Daitetsu]

Hi Neo,

I read a lot of Nietzsche in the past. This is really something to work with...

One important note about this: Make sure which edition you read!
When Nietzsche became sick, his sister took over charge and edited some things in his works. For example she gave the impression that the book "The Will to Power" would be Nietzsche's main work - however, it was just a compilation of various fragments containg serious decipherment mistakes...

Unfortunately, I can't tell you the correct English edition, for our German readers the following is the version that can be fully trusted:

http://www.nietzschesource.org/

That's all of Nietzsche's works online for free (legal), including a lot of handwritten notes.

Schopenhauer's "The World as Will and Representation" might be a good starting point, before reading Nietzsche.
Nietzsche actually started out as a kind of fan of Schopenhauer's, but later wanted to overcome S.'s pessimism.

All of this is not necessary for our path though, just an interesting read if you can spare the time.

Gassho,

Daitetsu

[Jinyo]

Hi there - trying not to get too 'way - laid' by philosophy just now but would like to add a couple of thoughts.

Hee-Jin Kim's book, as mentioned, is definately worth a read but I have to say I did find it took a lot of concentration and I need to read it again. His central point - that Dogen needs to be read against his own cultural time is key though. That doesn't mean we can't appropriate from Dogen - we can and do - but the way Dogen is coming at what we might term 'phenomenology' is not (IMHO) the way in which Western philosophy comes at it.

The western philosopher who came closest (again in IMHO) is Husserl - but what I've gained from reading Husserl is how wide of the mark western philosophy can be.

For anyone snagged up on existentialism I highly recommend Keiji Nishitani's 'Religion and Nothingness'. Again, this is not an easy text - but the Kyoto School of Philosophy really grappled with existentialism in a most interesting and illuminating way.

Happy philosophizing and don't forget to 'sit' because it's really important to let all this stuff fall away and not dominate one's thoughts.

Gassho

Willow

[Taigu]

Taikyo, any thoughts? ( after all , you know more about this stuff than anyone lese here)

and of course, you dn't know anything...

gassho


T.

[Jundo]

Hi Fred and Neo,

I suggest picking up Hee Jin Kim's Mystical Realist. It is a clear exposition of Dogen's view of Zen without much Zen speak. It may be easier to digest for you guys interested in philosophy.

Yes, that and another book by Prof. Kim (Dogen on Meditation and Thinking) are well recommended as two of the best examinations of Dogen's ways. Not fast and light reading, however.

Gassho, J

[Neo]

thanks for all answers.

Yeah, I know he was very inspired by Schopenhauer, both of his philosophy and Schopenhauer way of living, and I can't really understand right now how, or why, he abandoned his ideas later on, that's something I'm trying to figure out now. Schopenhauer was very inspired from the eastern doctrines of oneness and suffering.

I will keep studying both Buddhism and existential philosophy on my own to see where it's taking me! I'm sure that I'll come to the conclusion in the end just sit and go kiss the rain

[Neo]

I'll keep an eye open for Hee Jin Kim book as well, but I should probably get another shot on the shobogenzo first

[Liang]

Taigu, thank you very much for the commentary on the ox herding pictures. I'm part way thru. The seeker and the seeking aren't it. This is an excellent response to the existentialist quest and to my own search for answers. Thank you for your teaching!

Gassho, Fred

[Kyonin]

Philosophy is important but books and authors can get you only so far.

What's philosophy good for if you don't live with kindness and compassion in your heart?

How can one understand philosophy without zazen?

I read. I sit and be silent.

Therefore we exist.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Kyonin]

Happy philosophizing and don't forget to 'sit' because it's really important to let all this stuff fall away and not dominate one's thoughts.

Gassho

Willow

That was pretty close to what I wanted to write. Thank you, Willow.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Neo]

To be honest, philosophy can help you to compassion and kindness as well. There's a thing called buddhist philosophy,. I'm sure you all read some of that.

[Liang]

Neo, talking about the merits of philosophy reminded me of a moment when I was working as a low level corporate wage slave doing customer service. Several months in I happened to mention that I was a college grad (only one of my coworkers) around my supervisor who got really excited and asked what it was in; as I saw her mentally sizing me up for promotion or transfer to another department. I said "Philosophy" and she immediately turned back to what she was doing and never mentioned it again. Lolz!

[Fugu]

I read all the existentialists in college and was fascinated; then I read Viktor Frankl's 'Man's Search For Meaning'. That kind of settled everything for me. I'm with The Third School......

Gassho,

Lee

[Nameless]

The thing I try to remind myself of from time to time when considering the Dharma is that it is just a way of expressing that which can't be expressed with words. The Buddha sat, uncovered enlightenment and began to teach the Dharma. The Dharma is just the truth of the world when seen "as it is," which sitting helps with sitting can reveal (only if it isn't the goal of sitting though haha). Eventually, all life is seen as zazen both on the zafu and off it. I can study Buddhist philosophy for a lifetime and I'll just be staring at the finger rather than the moon. From my own experience, much of the Dharma didn't click with me until I began to sit Shikantaza regularly. Then these seemingly vague words began to click because they only seem vague due to their simplicity. So simple that the thinking mind can't believe it. So for me, it took sitting for the Dharma to really make sense.

Gassho, John

[Jundo]

The thing I try to remind myself of from time to time when considering the Dharma is that it is just a way of expressing that which can't be expressed with words. The Buddha sat, uncovered enlightenment and began to teach the Dharma. The Dharma is just the truth of the world when seen "as it is," which sitting helps with sitting can reveal (only if it isn't the goal of sitting though haha). Eventually, all life is seen as zazen both on the zafu and off it. I can study Buddhist philosophy for a lifetime and I'll just be staring at the finger rather than the moon. From my own experience, much of the Dharma didn't click with me until I began to sit Shikantaza regularly. Then these seemingly vague words began to click because they only seem vague due to their simplicity. So simple that the thinking mind can't believe it. So for me, it took sitting for the Dharma to really make sense.

Gassho, John

Yep. Sometimes our existential Practice is cleaning up Buddha piss in the Buddha kitchen ...

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?11876-BOOK-OF-EQUANIMITY-Case-32&p=120157&viewfull=1#post120157

Gassho, J

[Nameless]

Hahaha! Yep yep!

Gassho, John