Thoughts about Adyashantis teachings

[Kokuu]

Sam,

If I may say so, that is a very mature response that reflects well on the state of your practice. Not sure I would be quite so considered were it suggested I might take my leave!

Am happy you are fully engaging with the teachings here. As you say, dedicating yourself to one teaching is important and although it can be good to lurk here for a while to decide if it feels right, eventually we have to commit or else there is little point in staying.

Gassho
Andy

[Hans]

Hello dear Treeleafers,

something that a lot of people may misunderstand at times is the fact ( and I know I cannot speak for Taigu or Jundo...just for myself) that when one says matter of factly "you can leave" it doesn't mean someone wants to kick someone else out, but it is a direct statement underlining the obvious sometimes, that we are not recruiting around here. The door to this sangha is open both ways. It doesn't mean criticism is not allowed etc., but it can mean that if one feels that the nature of the teachings around here doesn't really agree with one's own likes and dislikes one always has the option of just leaving.

And just in case anyone is interested in my purely subjective opinion, I personally feel that Adyashanti did have a lot of very intersting things to say and that he had great ways of communicating certain of his deepest insights when he was lesser known....a few years further down the line however, what he is offering and how he is offering it has become almost not distinguishable from a lot of other New-Age "products".

Gassho,

Hans Chudo Mongen

[Neo]

http://secularbuddhism.org/faq/

If you don't understand what I mean by secular buddhism, here u go bro.

[Jishin]

Hi Neo,

What is Zen? :-)

Gassho, John

[Jundo]

http://secularbuddhism.org/faq/

If you don't understand what I mean by secular buddhism, here u go bro.

Hi Neo,

Not only am I a friend and general supporter of Ted Meissner and the other folks associated with the Secular Buddhist group you linked to (wonderful podcast, by the way), I consider that Treeleaf (or, at least, my corner of it) may fall within their definition of "Secular Buddhist".

Secular Buddhism is concerned with the practice of Siddhattha Gotama’s four noble truths in this world. It encourages a naturalistic and pragmatic approach to the teaching, seeking to provide a framework for personal and social development within the cultural context of our time. ... The primary difference is that Secular Buddhism has no dependency on assertions not in evidence, it is based solely on that which can be verified in the natural world. It does not rule out such claims, but merely recognizes that such assertions (like literal rebirth) have not been able to provide any externally verifiable or convincing evidence. And, like the claims of other religions which cannot be verified by any known means, can be set aside. ... Secular Buddhist are either agnostic about rebirth, or don’t believe in literal rebirth. The word secular can have the meaning of having to do with this lifetime, this natural world, or may also be interpreted as to be lacking in religious tradition.

For those secular Buddhists who have not found there to be enough valid evidence for a literal rebirth, there is still a benefit to viewing textual references to rebirth as metaphor. That is, taken as a reference to our moment by moment arising and falling of the concept of self, rebirth helps us to investigate and loosen our ideas about who we are, and how we engage with the present moment. In this way, references to rebirth can be quite helpful in broadening our awareness of situations in which we find ourselves, get a bit more space between our perceptions and our reactions, and make better decisions right now.

We are working very hard to make Traditional Teachings relevant for our time. In fact, I do not see anything on that page that particularly would exclude us, so maybe you can enlighten me if you see something. For example, I often describe myself as an "open minded but skeptical agnostic (and anyway what matters is Practice here and now)" on extremely literal, fanciful and mechanical descriptions of the workings of Karma and Rebirth. In fact, by such definition, we may be closer to "secular Buddhists" than Mr. Adyashanti!

Gassho, Jundo

[Neo]

Hi Neo,

What is Zen? :-)

Gassho, John

emptiness

[Kokuu]

Neo, I wonder if you don't mean secular Buddhism, which (as Jundo says) is a move away from faith based beliefs such as reincarnation and literal Buddhist cosmology, but rather non-sectarian Buddhism or Buddhist modernism, which tends to mix and match dharma from a variety of sources?

The former is pretty in line with what is taught here. The latter, not so much.

I get the feeling from Jundo that everyone is welcome to receive teaching from other sources as well as Treeleaf and there is no compulsion to just stick to the teachings and suggested reading here. However, the forum is for the discussion of Soto Zen practice and teachings, particularly the practice of shikantaza as outlined by the teachers here and other teachers from the same and related lineages. So, while we are free to read and practice whatever we like, bringing in other teachings and practice methods muddies the water and can confuse people. With that in mind, it is respectful to the sangha here to leave your other teachings and teachers at the doors of the forum before entering.

There are other more wide-ranging Buddhist forums but, while those benefit from a diverse blend of views and teachings, they do not exist to provide practice instruction from a lineage like Treeleaf does and that requires a certain clarity of focus.

I hope you can benefit from the teachings here. No need to discard everything else but when in Rome, sit like the Romans.

Gassho
Andy

[Bunny]

Thanks Andy! Your post clarifies everything perfectly.
Gassho
Bunny

[Neo]

Why would you want to join a Soto Zen sangha if you have a mentality like this In my short time here I have come across extremely open minded and compassionate individuals who are willing to offer their opinions and teachings to genuinely help others. 2013 or not, our practice is still relevant. I hope you keep an open mind during your time here!

I just said that we should be our self, in 2013, and still apply buddhist/zen concepts on our lives. We don't have to live like a monk 1000 years ago, because we don't have the same world view. And I don't understand why I am unmannered. We are just having a discussion here. You got me wrong my friend, I like dogens teachings about the true reality.

[Steven]

We don't have to live like a monk 1000 years ago, because we don't have the same world view.

You seem to be holding on to preconceived notions of what the practice here is. Even if someone in Treeleaf was trying live like a monk 1000 years ago, I think they would feel slightly torn by using the Internet to connect with members of the sangha . As far as the unmannered comment, you did reply a little abrasively to what the teachers said based on what you assume to be the way things are here. 1513, 2013, 2513, it doesn't matter!

[Heishu]

Maybe a little less tit for tat and a little more compassion will make for good medicine. Going back in forth over perhaps a misunderstanding, maybe it is time to sit just for a bit.

Neo, words are what we make of them, the hazards of posting and what other's interpretation of what we meant. I agree we now live in the year 2013, but we learn from one that lived 2500 or so years ago, otherwise why are we "Buddhist". The teachings are passed down and we adapt them to the present, we don't change them to suit our desires. You are correct that we don't have to live as a monk but for those that choose to live as monks that is good for them. Sometimes we try to mold everything to fit our personal needs and desires. Perhaps, sometimes we need to just be. Secular or non-secular Buddhism, makes so little difference to me. I am a "Zen Buddhist" because I have read words from the past that work so well in the present.

I do hope that you will stick around, you have given us so much to think about in just a short time. As has already been said, lot's of good teaching here at Treeleaf. We just need to take time to listen to one another.

Gassho,
Heishu

[Jundo]

Maybe a little less tit for tat and a little more compassion will make for good medicine. Going back in forth over perhaps a misunderstanding, maybe it is time to sit just for a bit.

Yes.

[shikantazen]

That's a beautiful post Heishu

[Mp]

Heishu .... such wonderful words.

Gassho
Shingen

[Joyo]

Maybe a little less tit for tat and a little more compassion will make for good medicine. Going back in forth over perhaps a misunderstanding, maybe it is time to sit just for a bit.

Neo, words are what we make of them, the hazards of posting and what other's interpretation of what we meant. I agree we now live in the year 2013, but we learn from one that lived 2500 or so years ago, otherwise why are we "Buddhist". The teachings are passed down and we adapt them to the present, we don't change them to suit our desires. You are correct that we don't have to live as a monk but for those that choose to live as monks that is good for them. Sometimes we try to mold everything to fit our personal needs and desires. Perhaps, sometimes we need to just be. Secular or non-secular Buddhism, makes so little difference to me. I am a "Zen Buddhist" because I have read words from the past that work so well in the present.

I do hope that you will stick around, you have given us so much to think about in just a short time. As has already been said, lot's of good teaching here at Treeleaf. We just need to take time to listen to one another.

Gassho,
Heishu

Beautiful words, Heishu!!

With deep bows,
Treena