Why do you practice Zen?

[Rich]

To get rid of everything, all the illusions of getting or having something more than this.




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[Risho]

I sincerely do it now, because I want to realize what I've read about for myself.... not in a selfish way. I sincerely want to realize Emptiness is Form, Form is Emptiness.

Gassho,

Risho

[YuimaSLC]

I sit to drop/let go of self that conceptualizes, speculates, fears and suffers. But it seems more about realizing that there no constructed self that sees/hears/smells/tastes/touches/conceptualizes separate, apart and alone from the ground upon which to stand, air to breath, and water to quench. Life is not obstructed and all phenomenon "fit" , yet it takes the concept of obstruction to learn of it's immateriality.

Gassho

Richard

[Anshu]

I practice to become genuine human.

[Jundo]

I practice to become genuine human.

Some of what folks have written in this lovely Thread reminds me of the tile polishing Koan ... be careful ...

Thereupon, Nangaku took a roof tile and began rubbing it on a rock near Baso’s hut.

Baso, upon seeing this, asked him, “Reverend monk, what are you doing?”

Nangaku replied, “I am polishing a roof tile.”

Baso then asked, “What are you going to make by polishing a roof tile?”

Nangaku replied, “I am polishing it to make a mirror.”

Baso said, “How can you possibly make a mirror by rubbing a tile?”

Nangaku replied, “How can you possibly make yourself into a genuine human by practicing?”

[Risho]

Ha! I was just thinking about that. When I said "not in a selfish way", that was BS. I always have ulterior motives; I think it's just a natural part of the ego.

During tonight's zazen I thought about when I ask questions about Zen, such as: "Am I doing it right?", "What about this?" I'm not asking those innocently; I'm usually really asking, "How do 'I' do this correctly so 'I' can get the most out of this?" It's how I live my life... or get through life to solve problems. I usually need to find the most efficient way to get something done. But it also causes problems, when that approach is taken to life. Living for efficiency is just joyless and it doesn't always take into consideration other people.. who are me as well.

So anyway during tonight's zazen I thought, it's not about that. Those are the wrong questions. It's not about what to get, it's about how to give. How do I best give myself to this practice? And it really is just sit... or as Taigu sensei says, "throw it all away". You have to... you just have to because those thoughts of getting constantly creep into practice. And it's not about rejecting them either; that's just another way of "getting" something, "getting" a sense of feeling pride because you aren't allowing those thoughts anywhere near you. It's just about letting them pass without grasping or rejecting. How do I give to this? How do I fully give myself to this practice without worrying about what may happen to "I" or how "I" will benefit?

I think that is an important question and not just on the cushion but in life. How do I give to this situation? Instead of how do "I" get the most out of this?

When "I" want something and dont' get it, I really can get disappointed... even during zen for some reason my eyes have been getting crosseyed lately. I have no idea why... sometimes my back gets sore, I'm in a crosseyed phase. hahahaah In any case, sometimes I get frustrated like why is this happening to "me"? But if I give myself to the moment and drop that it just goes away.

Just some random zennie thoughts.

Gassho,

Risho

[Jundo]

Of course, I do not mean that we do not Practice in order to be better people, freer of Greed, Anger and Ignorance ... embodying Wisdom and Compassion ...

We do! And this Practice helps with that.

It is just that How can you possibly make yourself into a genuine human by practicing?

Even as we change, who and what is there to change?

As I said on another thread today ...

We strive sincerely, with all our hearts, for perfection, to do something well and get it right ... all while dropping from our hearts all "striving" (even as we strive) ... all while realizing the perfect "just what it is-ness" of things even as we try to do the best possible, perfectly right or perfectly wrong.

Zen is not a one or the other way.

No matter what you say, you can't get out of the conundrum. You can't win for losing, any which way you turn.

Leads to another famous Koan on Practice, cited by Dogen at the end of the Genjo ...

Master Ho-tetsu of Mt. Mayoku was using a fan. At that time, a monk came in and asked him, “[It is said that] the nature of air is to be ever-present, and there is no place that air cannot reach. Why then does the Master use a fan?”

The Master said, “You only know that the nature of air is to be ever-present, but you have not understood the fact that there is no place the air cannot reach.”

The monk said, “What is the meaning of the principle ‘There is no place the air cannot reach’?”

At this, the Master just [carried on] using the fan. The monk prostrated himself.

[Dogen says:] The real experience of Buddhism, the vivid behavior of the Buddhist tradition, is like this. Someone who says that because [the air] is ever-present we need not use a fan, or that even when we do not use [a fan] we can still feel the air, does not know ever-presence, and does not know the nature of air. Because the nature of air is to be ever-present, the behavior of Buddhists makes the Earth manifest itself as gold, and ripens the Milky Way into delicious cream.

Buddha is everywhere, there is no need or way to fan (Practice) to make Buddha. Yet by fanning, we bring Buddha to life.

Zen folks talk out of both sides of the no-sided mouth.

Gassho, J

[Jundo]

When I saw this report, I could not help feeling that ultimately our Practice is like a skateboarding goat trying to be a genuine goat or a genuine skateboarder.

Nonetheless, we do our best to get into the Buddha Book of Records.

Righteous ridin' everyone!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL7tvYnPsLs

[Mp]

When I saw this report, I could not help feeling that ultimately our Practice is like a skateboarding goat trying to be a genuine goat or a genuine skateboarder.

Nonetheless, we do our best to get into the Buddha Book of Records.

Righteous ridin' everyone!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BL7tvYnPsLs

Brilliant! I would have fallen off at the beginning.

Gassho
Shingen

[Anshu]

Thank you Jundo

[Dojin]

I started out to escape the suffering i was feeling at the time.
10 years after i can tell you that i dont really practice. ofcourse i sit zazen everyday, i dont really practice in the sense its a practice. the person i am now is inseparable from practice. i cant say if i am who i am because of zen practice, in spite of it or nothing to do with it. but its just me... it is who i am. i cant tell you in what ways practicing zen manifest in my life, if i think about it, it probably doesnt manifest at all in anyway. but it is a part of anything and everything i do, say or think. so i dont practice zen i just live.

Gassho, Dojin.

[toshiro_mifune]

Because life kept bouncing me back to the First Noble Truth again, again and again until I in my limited capability understood the causes of suffering. So Buddha seemed to be onto something. Now, Theravada makes most sense than other kinds of Budhism, but it takes infinite aeons to get anywhere, and we live in the last age or Dharma when no one gets enlightened anymore. So you switch to Mahayana, and you get a decent Madhyamika teachings that make a lot of sense, but you also don't get anywhere unless you serve million Buddhas or get a Tantra transmission that can drive you crazy. Then you realize you get crazy from conflicting ideas and views and you need something direct and simple. That's when you hit Zen. Zen is super-charged Yogacara beyond any traces of reason. You can't believe it, it forces you to practice. In Japan Zen was tough and was not meant to be a way for everyone. Samurais.
In the West, Zen became a safe haven for burned out hippies and suburban moms all about peace, love and flowers but the teachings are simple and are still available. There is no other way to deal with life than Zen. My humble five cents.

Gassho,
Mike

[Shonin]

Mike,your post seems to be a bit confusing.If Theravada makes the most sense to you , then why Zen at all? I agree modern Western Zen is much different from the traditional Way. But the difference is more in that it is available to the layperson. One doesn't have to become a monk or nun in order to have access to the Dharma. And we beat each other less. Katsu is still valid in my view tho. So as you say Zen is the only way to deal with life, which of those stereotypical categories do you fall into if I may be so bold as to enquire?

In Metta,
Dave _/\_

P.S. I'm most undoubtedly a love and peace soccer mom. Just so we're clear.

[toshiro_mifune]

Mike,your post seems to be a bit confusing.If Theravada makes the most sense to you , then why Zen at all? I agree modern Western Zen is much different from the traditional Way. But the difference is more in that it is available to the layperson. One doesn't have to become a monk or nun in order to have access to the Dharma. And we beat each other less. Katsu is still valid in my view tho. So as you say Zen is the only way to deal with life, which of those stereotypical categories do you fall into if I may be so bold as to enquire?

In Metta,
Dave _/\_

P.S. I'm most undoubtedly a love and peace soccer mom. Just so we're clear.

And I am not a samurai either - just a plain software programmer, which according to an article I read some time ago makes me statistically a stereotypical candidate for a Zen student I would not joke if the friendly joke was not on me as well And yes, I want peace.

When you read Pali Theravada suttas, people ask questions, Gautama responds. In 80% of the cases you say to yourself - "Yes, this makes sense. I think he is right.". Very tough, very "ascetic", but it may be true. Anicca, anatta and the third thing. You can't find the self, the world is suffering, the stuff is arising in your mind and he describes it pretty down to earth and there is nothing that goes against reason.

When you move to Mahayana sutras, suddenly you see all of those miraculous displays of billions of worlds with jewels, lotus flowers, beams of lights and what not. Fast forward to Nirvana Sutra, and you have an Atman, which sounds like a blasphemy. Lots of stuff to swallow.

In my limited view, Zen cuts through all of this, tells me to shut up and sit. If there is a way, it must be simple.

[Myosha]

Shut Up and Sit



Isn't that the frontispiece of the latest 'Buddha Book of Records'?


Gassho,
Edward