An appreciation that will be no surprised to some and little to others! And an invite

[Myosha]

You have our gratitude.

Thank you.


Gassho
Edward

[Nenka]

Hi David,

Last fall I tried out a local sitting group for a while. I was reluctant to tell them I was part of an "online sangha" because I figured they wouldn't get it and I was right, they strongly suggested there was no substitute for getting together to sit in person.

Then, after the sitting, they fired up a laptop and we had a book discussion group on Skype, led by the teacher, who lives a couple towns away. I almost laughed out loud.

Actually they were a very nice group but I felt like I already had roots here--because I do.

Gassho

Jen

[Myozan Kodo]

Great story Nenka! Roots. That's it. Fits right in with lineage.
Gassho
Myozan

[arnold]

I agree. I have been a member of several well established Zen Centers/Monasterys with "well published" teachers over the years. Except in one case I have found Rev. Jundo (I am sure this is true of Rev. Taigu as well but haven't reached out) to be accessible in a manner well beyond what those teachers could offer. That accessibility is on a level that makes it easy to understand that "all of life" is indeed "our Temple" our pracitice. This is not to say that those other teachers were not genuine but for me Treeleaf offers something very valuable to me that they did not.

Furthermore, in all those 20 years I had very few dialogues with fellow students; with the notable exception of a lifelong Dharma friendship with one Rinzai nun. It may seem strange to say, but Treeleaf feels the most like "living" with a Sangha that I have experienced and that includes a period when I was living in a Chan Center as a prospective monk in my early 20's.

Thank you Rev.s Jundo and Taigu and thank you to all fellow practitioners out there. Treeleaf has become a very important part of my life.

[Koshin]

Treeleaf is as real as any Zendo I have been into.... but here the people feel closer, the teachers actually can hear and speak with you anytime, you can always learn and relearn something new, over and over again... and it is open 24/7... What else could anyone ask for???

And there is no way the Kyosaku will hurt you , no matter how hard you are hit!!!

Deep Gassho for all my friends/teachers over here

[shikantazen]

Good thread. Something that has brought up a lot of questions I have. Online versus in-person

The role treeleaf is playing is remarkable and very useful due to the following reasons:

- The teachers are of high quality, especially in the form of Shikantaza style of soto-zen. We rarely find good teachers in this form of meditation. Most zen teachers teach counting/following breath
- The forum style of interaction lets you benefit from others questions. Also when you pose a question traditionally at zen centers only teachers answer that. Here you get several answers from senior students as well and one of those answers might resonate better to you.
- Tree Leaf is unique in its kind as its the only online training Zen center. I feel this makes it more successful as a business model because in places where there are no Zen centers, this is the only option and in places where there are Zen centers this still can be an addition or the only preferred choice too.

Having said that, let me pose a question: If Jundo and Taigu were teaching in your neighborhood, would you still prefer the online thing versus going physically to their Zendo?

I think the online thing has its own advantages as mentioned above. But I heard a teacher's physical presence itself can uplift you spiritually and any energy transmission is more easier in person. I don't know how true this is. Also for group meditations, I feel the same thing applies, a physical setting gives a better cumulative effect than an online setting.

I still have to come to terms with the idea of having Treeleaf as my "only" Zendo. It is a wonderful and irreplaceable addition especially as I have access to good number of Zen centers at my place.

- Sam

[arnold]

Sam, Treeleaf or a physical Zendo are good options. Both a Physical Zendo and Treeleaf together are good. I don't think it really matters. What is most important is sincerity in our practice. I think the point most of us Treeleafers are trying to make is that the criticism aimed at this Sangh is unjustified simply because our teachers are sincere and the practice here is sincere so long as you choose to wholeheartedly enter what is being taught here which is a particular style of Soto Zen.

Regarding your comment:

I heard a teacher's physical presence itself can uplift you spiritually and any energy transmission is more easier in person.

Though I think it is probalby best that Reverend's Jundo and/or Taigu respond to this, I would like to add my 2 cents for all it's worth. My personal opinion is that such claims are not very helpful and put the teacher on a pedestal that is potentially harmful to them and their students. Such ideas about a teacher seem to be needlessly extravagant and do little to orient a person to their own daily life and practice. I don't really think there is anything special about anyone's "energy". It's common knowledge that all the universe is energy. So it is what it is, we are what we are which is wonderful and mundane all at once.

[Kyonin]

- The teachers are of high quality, especially in the form of Shikantaza style of soto-zen.

Branding people with labels and preconceived ideas like if they were objects, is what prevent you from understanding and pushes you to your endless questioning.

Seriously. Drop it all.

Just sit.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[ZenHarmony]

So true



Lisa

[shikantazen]

Branding people with labels and preconceived ideas like if they were objects, is what prevent you from understanding and pushes you to your endless babble and questioning.

Seriously. Drop it all.

Just sit.

Gassho,

Kyonin

Kyonin,

Why don't you drop your branding and preconceived ideas about me and my posts and just sit?

Thanks for your "advice" but I don't see anything wrong with my post or with the teachers here. I don't know why you are trying to make an issue out of my post. It is blind followers like you who cause the trouble not posts like mine or the sincere teachers here.

- Sam

[Myosha]

Dear Sam,

Thank you for the insight you've afforded.

Grateful for the lesson.


Gassho,
Edward

[Matt]

I have to admit that the online nature of this zendo was one of my stumbling blocks when I began. I thought that maybe it would not be 'real' enough. Or worse, that others would think I was not engaging in 'real zen.'

However, once I just let all of that go (my ideas, my ego), I found this to be an incredibly supportive and vibrant community. Thank you to Jundo, Taigu, and to each member.

Deep bows,
Matt J

[Nengyo]

Having said that, let me pose a question: If Jundo and Taigu were teaching in your neighborhood, would you still prefer the online thing versus going physically to their Zendo?

- Sam

If I lived next door to Jundo and Taigu, I would probably prefer to go to the physical zendo as much as possible. It's nice to get out of the house sometimes and to be honest I would really like to try on that fancy hat Taigu was wearing in the video about collecting alms and yelling hooooooo! Of course, afterwards I would come back to forum and make a post about it. In the end you make due with what you have...and we have it pretty damn good here (when google + is working )

[MyoHo]

Treeleaf is as real as any other sangha. Sometimes even more real in spirit then some congregations at one single location and I think that’s amazing. I'm grateful to you all for sitting and for being here.

Deep bows to you all.

Enkyo

[Daijo]

The benefits of any zendo are dependent on the same thing, our own commitment and dedication to our practice. Tree Leaf offers great opportunities to learn, teach, share life lessons, get to know your sangha, etc. But without self discipline, control, and dedication to practice these things are just words on an internet forum. Real or not real? Only we can control that, bricks or no bricks.