New York Times

[Myozan Kodo]

Hi all,
The Joshu Sasaki story has been picked up by the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/asia/zen-buddhists-roiled-by-accusations-against-teacher.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Gassho
Myozan

[Kyonin]

Thank you for sharing this, Myozan.

Sexual pradation and molestation are plain wrong, no matter if you are a Buddhist or not.

I just hope this doesn't end up giving Zen a bad name.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Juki]

Ugh. For those of us who have been following this ugly story on Brad Warner's blog, the proverbial sh*+ has now hit the fan. I suppose it was inevitable.

[Mp]

Thank you for sharing this, Myozan.

Sexual pradation and molestation are plain wrong, no matter if you are a Buddhist or not.

I just hope this doesn't end up giving Zen a bad name.

Gassho,

Kyonin

I agree, I hope this does not give Zen a bad name. It is important to let people know about this kind of bad behaviour, but sadly people sometimes people see one bad apple and think the whole basket is rotten.

Gassho
Shingen

[Jundo]

Hi all,
The Joshu Sasaki story has been picked up by the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/world/asia/zen-buddhists-roiled-by-accusations-against-teacher.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Gassho
Myozan

A couple of talks I offered on these scandals. I think they speak for themselves.

SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Safe Landings

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?10480-SIT-A-LONG-with-Jundo-Safe-Landings

SIT-A-LONG with Jundo: Sex Scandal Finger Wagging

http://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?10071-SIT-A-LONG-with-JUNDO-Sex-Scandal-Finger-Wagging

And a little comment I posted today at SweepingZen ...

Sitting with the beautiful AND the ugly in this world ... finding that which simultaneously holds and transcends "beautiful and ugly" ... is our Practice, is why we "breath in breath out". So, why should we not simply practice with beautiful and ugly in some Zen Sangha too? If you cannot tolerate looking right in the eye of "ugly" ... be it in a so-called Zen Master or anywhere else ... then you may be missing the point. Sounds like a strange contradiction, huh? What's more, though we transcend the ugly, we simultaneously try to fix the ugly we can and make it beautiful. Gassho, Jundo

[JohnsonCM]

Personally. My heart goes out to those affected by this, including Joshu Sasaki. It is sad that these women had to deal with this, but it is also sad that Sasaki roshi lost himself in his Self. Compassion should be a sword with as many edges as Kanzeon has hands, and cut the bonds of attachment in all directions.

[Risho]

I'm not condoning this, but did anyone ever go to the authorities? Was anyone ever physically forced into this? Obviously this is deviant behavior but if your boss or someone asked you to do something inappropriate, wouldn't this be handled by a lawsuit? These are adults here; if someone consents to this behavior because they think it is leading them toward a more spiritual path, that is just insane.. Seriously... insane. Now I understand that people studying different spiritual paths are not always in the most stable of situations because that's likely what can lead some people to those paths at times. But we are all adults. I mean if Jundo or Taigu said: "ok case 26 of book of equanimity, hint the real answer is only expressed by dropping your pants"... wouldn't that raise some red flags and make people just say ok, this is not right. Why stay and put up with that?

Obviously this is bad, and this shouldn't be tolerated, but I think it also illustrates a very odd aspect of the herd mentality. I don't know how else to articulate this. Just because someone is practicing the way doesn't mean they should give up good judgement. If a school is going to make you do things that are odd or cultish, be done with the school. I just don't get it.

Gassho,

Risho

[Jundo]

I'm not condoning this, but did anyone ever go to the authorities? Was anyone ever physically forced into this? Obviously this is deviant behavior but if your boss or someone asked you to do something inappropriate, wouldn't this be handled by a lawsuit? These are adults here; if someone consents to this behavior because they think it is leading them toward a more spiritual path, that is just insane.. Seriously... insane. Now I understand that people studying different spiritual paths are not always in the most stable of situations because that's likely what can lead some people to those paths at times. But we are all adults. I mean if Jundo or Taigu said: "ok case 26 of book of equanimity, hint the real answer is only expressed by dropping your pants"... wouldn't that raise some red flags and make people just say ok, this is not right. Why stay and put up with that?

Obviously this is bad, and this shouldn't be tolerated, but I think it also illustrates a very odd aspect of the herd mentality. I don't know how else to articulate this. Just because someone is practicing the way doesn't mean they should give up good judgement. If a school is going to make you do things that are odd or cultish, be done with the school. I just don't get it.

Gassho,

Risho

Hi Risho,

Knowing many women here in Japan and America who have been fondled on the subway and such, there are a lot of circumstances and reasons not to go to the police. Tremendous social pressure in the Zen group too just to let it be. But, yes, some people did go to the police when it was bad enough in Sasaki's case, and the cases were ultimately dropped. It often becomes a "he said, she said" situation, "or she said, they said" situation when there are enablers around trying to cover up the situation for their teacher.

Hard for many men to understand what it is like for the victims in these cases sometimes.

Gassho, J

[Risho]

Yeah that's very very true. Sorry if I came off as insensitive. I have never been in one of those situations.

[Jinyo]

Yeah that's very very true. Sorry if I came off as insensitive. I have never been in one of those situations.

.... and not likely to be my friend as you are not female

But the issue goes much wider than that because it is to do with power relations. Men and children also find themselves in a situation where there is an imbalance of power. The capacity to say 'no' to an exploitative situation depends on many, many variables. We can not second guess what goes on in another persons mind that prevents them exiting an abusive relationship.

I think a strong ethics policy and procedures of complaint are essential - all of which seems to be in place at Treeleaf.

I don't think the 'story' will give Zen a bad name - if anything it will galvanize organizations to tighten things up - as is happening across the board. The era of laissez faire over sexual misconduct is well over.

Gassho

Willow

[Tb]

Hi.

Sorry to step in here, It's like the discussion several years ago about wheteher or not Men could be raped, and of course they can. And if they can, why cant they be groped, or sexually abused?

But i would also like to say that Willow is right, the situation is larger than just the groping or sexual harassment of females and males, its about relations.
And when we get to the point when we discuss that, then we are hitting the core of the problem (not to say that we don't need to deal with these problems to, just saying).

Now, as to whether the story will give Zen a bad name, perhaps, but in the end, as the guy here on Treeleaf says, it's all good practice.

Mtfbwy
Fugen

[Oheso]

cases like this (sad) one cause me to review exactly what being enlightened means in terms of actually living a life. at one time I was more than surprised that people of "spiritual accomplishment", in various persuasions, could cruelly victimize others or not be able to control substance abuse to the point of their own deaths. but the shock has long since worn off, as Oheso smells the coffee called "Life". still, vexed by my own inhumanities, ashamed of the titillative aspects of these stories-

enlightenment not entirely dispelling endarkenment? still don't completely understand the dynamics of this. obviously the broadness of the Dharma isn't dependent upon my understanding.

-Robert

[Daitetsu]

Hi Robert,

enlightenment not entirely dispelling endarkenment? still don't completely understand the dynamics of this. obviously the broadness of the Dharma isn't dependent upon my understanding.

The thing is even when you realize there is a kind of stage play going on, that you are like an actor on a stage, it won't change the fact that you are in this stage play, you are part of it.
So even with a small or big realization or no realization at all - you are part of the drama.
Having a glimpse of the stage, seeing a curtain, requisites, etc., knowing that there actually is a drama/stage play going on might be useful (for some people even life changing), as it can convince you that our practice is right, it can encourage you - but it does not take away the fact that we still have to play our role, i.e. to lead our everyday life.
That's why satori/kensho is not that important in my arrogant opinion. You can have kensho/satori and still be an a*****e.
At least that's my "Soto-ish" point of view...

Gassho,

Timo

[Oheso]

thank you for this, Timo. your dramatic metaphor makes sense to me.

[Jundo]

Hi Robert,



The thing is even when you realize there is a kind of stage play going on, that you are like an actor on a stage, it won't change the fact that you are in this stage play, you are part of it.
So even with a small or big realization or no realization at all - you are part of the drama.
Having a glimpse of the stage, seeing a curtain, requisites, etc., knowing that there actually is a drama/stage play going on might be useful (for some people even life changing), as it can convince you that our practice is right, it can encourage you - but it does not take away the fact that we still have to play our role, i.e. to lead our everyday life.
That's why satori/kensho is not that important in my arrogant opinion. You can have kensho/satori and still be an a*****e.
At least that's my "Soto-ish" point of view...

Gassho,

Timo

Oh, this theatre stage is alive with possibilities, all of life, comedy and tragedy ready to play out. Every brick and board and light and piece of scenery is interconnected and interflowing to bring on the production. We have awoken each as an actor on the stage, and there appear to be other actors with us making the story up as we go along. Characters enter and exit from the wings, some we love, some we may fear, most we barely know. Is there a playwright, a stage designer? Or is it but a "theatre of the absurd", improvised as we go? No matter, for though much of the constantly changing story appears beyond our control (really there are as many stories as actors!), we also seem free to choose many of our next lines and reactions.

What we find if we are able to see through is that all of it ... every brick, every seat and aisle, the lights and boards of the stage, all the scenery and each actor including you and me ... are whole, one great interflowing, vibrant and spectacular. Not just the building, for the very comedy and tragedy is all part of it, for what would an empty theatre be without the play, the laughs and tears, and its audience and actors (we are both at once) to give it life!?

Yes, we are the treatre and the threatre is who we are. The stories are our story. We are not simply standing on a stage with others, but stage and cast and drama and song are whole in the most intimate sense.

Now, that being said ... even some folks who might realize this fact can make a muck of their lines, clumsy in their performance or choosing to play the villain.

(Anyway, ran with the analogy a bit).

Gassho, J