A beginner’s dilemma with a chattering mind

[Toun]

Hello everyone,

Finally I’m beginning to sit.

But, at the same time I am finding out how difficult it is to quite the mind. It’s incredible how thoughts and images constantly come and go, just appearing out of nowhere. I tried to refocus on my breath, but a short time later my mind went right back to it’s never ending flow of thoughts and images. Thoughts seem to "pop up" and appear in no logical order whatsoever.

I was just wondering if there any methods or techniques to try to control all of this mental chatter. Ive been trying to follow my breath and going back to it time and again. To a certain extent it does seem to work. Is this recommended or should I just let these thoughts come and go on their own?

I watched the beginners videos, which are great and have answered many of my questions.

It would be interesting to see how others have coped with the constant flow of thoughts when doing Zazen and the challenges it has presented.

With kind regards to all.


Gassho
Mike

[Shohei]

Hi!
I would say for now just sit with the chatter, let it come, and not give it too much thought
The constant flow of thought is what our minds do. Just let it come and do not give it much audience. It will settle down on its own...then start again

I will say I have done breath counting at the very beginning to help, quiet things down for a few sits. For the first while you may find the mind chatter quiets some but then there will be other things to distract (sudden itchy this and that, achy joints, sleepiness you name it! Funny what our body-mind comes up with to try to get us up, moving and busy again!

Gassho
Shohei

[Kyonin]

Chatter will always be there.

Let it come and go, don't cling to it. In time the chatter will still be there, but will take longer to come. At least that's my personal experience.

Like Shohei says, sit with it.

Gassho,

Kyonin

[Mp]

Hey Mike,

Not much else to add here, Shohei and Kyonin have expressed it very well.

Gassho
Michael

[Toun]

Thanks for the much needed advice Shohei, Kyonin and Michael!


I guess "sitting with it" is the way to go!


Gassho
Mike

[Nindo]

Pay attention, be kind, nothing to control.
Believe me, after 12 years of sitting, there is still chatter. No problem.

[Risho]

Hi!
I would say for now just sit with the chatter, let it come, and not give it too much thought
The constant flow of thought is what our minds do. Just let it come and do not give it much audience. It will settle down on its own...then start again

Gassho
Shohei

Good one!

[Taigu]

Chatter won t cease, being upset about it will.

Gassho

Taigu

Thumbs up for the vey good imput of people here! Good one Shohei!

[Toun]

Pay attention, be kind, nothing to control.

Very true...I guess that part of the problem is that we become obsessed with trying control the chatter in our minds.
On the other hand by becoming mere observers of our thoughts without grasping, we can let them arise and disappear.

Thank you Nindo.


Gassho
Mike

[Toun]

Chatter won t cease, being upset about it will.

Gassho

Taigu

Thumbs up for the vey good imput of people here! Good one Shohei!

Thank you Taigu and Shohei and also to everyone else for the excelent advice.


With kind regards

Gassho
Mike

[Myoku]

Not much to add,
only to be patient with yourself, your mind. I sometimes feel my mind and my 9 year old son are similar, talking all time.
I love my son, I love my mind, its ok and as long as I not feed the chattering it eventually stops .... for a moment ;-)
Gassho
Myoku

[Daisho]

Can't remember which book this advice was in but I follow it consistently: when sitting have no expectations. My mind can chatter away, or it can be silent with few distractions or anywhere in between and my sitting will always be perfect.

[Daitetsu]

Hi Mike!

I agree with what has been said here.
You should also drop thoughts of "good practice" vs. "bad practice". Sometimes it's stormy with lots of clouds, sometimes there is a lot of blue sky.
That's the way it is.
The most important thing for me is to don't care. Not just when monkey mind kept you busy, but also if you think afterwards it was kind of "very good this time" (i.e. lots of blue sky). Just practice to practice. And relax.
Just do it regularly.


I remember when I began with meditation I used a "trick":
Actually wait for the next thought, expect it! As a suprise thoughts didn't come so often anymore. This was just a slightly different attitude, but very effective.
But really, no tricks are really necessary. Just sit with what is (not).

Gassho,

Timo

[RichardH]

For me the one message that changed everything (without changing anything) was when a friend said .."It's not about having an experience, but whatever experience is present, as such." Whatever state of being, physical, mental, emotional, I wake up with,... is what sits on the cushion, busy, calm, happy, crappy, snarly. Sitting that, as that.. alone. The present state, precisely as is, alone, is unconditioned peace in/as/of any condition. A busy mind as busy mind, a calm mind as calm mind. It took a long time to give up the peace project and just sit.

Gassho, kojip

[Jakudo]

I agree Kojip....just sit Mike, without prejudice.