Kinda weird question about Right Speech

[Khalil Bodhi]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

I feel that the beauty of the precepts is bending our lives to fit them rather than the other way around. There's freedom of desires and then there's freedom from desires which is the path that the Buddhas and the enlightened masters have taught.

I cannot know why someone might keep or break a precept, and am in no position to judge. People do their best. It is presumptuous to see that in terms of bending precepts to fit lives... presumptuous is putting it lightly in fact.

Kojip,

My apologies if I have offended you or anyone else here as that was never my intention. I must admit that I find your assertion that I am judging anyone strange because I was simply starting my own personal (if unpopular) position. May you be well!

Mike

[RichardH]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

I feel that the beauty of the precepts is bending our lives to fit them rather than the other way around. There's freedom of desires and then there's freedom from desires which is the path that the Buddhas and the enlightened masters have taught.

I cannot know why someone might keep or break a precept, and am in no position to judge. People do their best. It is presumptuous to see that in terms of bending precepts to fit lives... presumptuous is putting it lightly in fact.

Kojip,

My apologies if I have offended you or anyone else here as that was never my intention. I must admit that I find your assertion that I am judging anyone strange because I was simply starting my own personal (if unpopular) position. May you be well!

Mike

I said I can't judge. What is presumptuous is to say that breaking a precept is only about bending it to suit self-centered desire. That is not my experience.


Gassho, kojip

[Shokai]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

What's this about Santa Claus !!! :shock: :shock:

[Khalil Bodhi]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

I'm so sorry you had to find out this way on the internet...let me know if you want to talk about it via PM :P

[Jundo]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

I feel that the beauty of the precepts is bending our lives to fit them rather than the other way around. There's freedom of desires and then there's freedom from desires which is the path that the Buddhas and the enlightened masters have taught.

Hi KB,

This is actually an important historical point. Theravadan Buddhism (which, by the way, folks sometimes think of as the "older" or "original" Buddhism, but which is more of a parallel path also developing in its own ways and flavor over the centuries) has tended to emphasize "freedom from desires" by being rid of, extinguishing or forsaking many passions, drives and desires.

Mahayana Buddhism, with its vision of "emptiness as precisely form, nirvana dancing right as samsara" has tended to see that "freedom from desire" can occur right in and as a world of desires. Of course, Mahayanists tend to believe in moderating desires, holding them lightly and without clutching attachment, and abandoning excess or negative and harmful desires such as for violence, misuse of sexuality in a hurtful way, greed for excess materialistic things, and the like. However, that being said, one can find non-attachment and "total, complete freedom from all desire" right in the heart of/in/as/though-and-through moderate, healthy, ordinary human desires themselves. Having some ordinary and healthy, balanced human "desire" and ALSO "complete lack of desire" are -not- an "either/or" contradiction, but can be both at once, as one ... shining through.

The Lotus Blossoms In The Mud, this muddy world is nourishment and life for the Lotus.

Sometimes, when it comes to excess or harmful things, we definitely bend our life to the Precepts, and the Precepts stand as firm and fixed sentinels of Right Conduct. At other times, amid the vagaries of life, the Precepts show great space. Someone once compared them to a fence around a cow field, keeping the cows from going too far astray so that they do not wander onto a busy highway or off a cliff, yet allowing the cows all spacious freedom of movement and choice within.

Gassho, J

[Khalil Bodhi]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

Rev. Jundo et al,

Thank you for the great posts. Although I can't say that I will necessarily see my practice in the same terms I hope you guys can accept a stodgy Theravadin into the fold. Metta.

Gassho,

Mike

[Jundo]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

Rev. Jundo et al,

Thank you for the great posts. Although I can't say that I will necessarily see my practice in the same terms I hope you guys can accept a stodgy Theravadin into the fold. Metta.

Gassho,

Mike

Let me add that not all Mahayana folks see or undertake the Precepts in the same way either. The life of celibate monks and "at home" folks is not the same. Dogen, for example, ran a pretty tight ship for his monks in a monastic setting. A bit "eye of the beholder" and " different degrees for different folks and situations".?

Gassho, Jundo

[RichardH]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

For what it is worth.. my experience with keeping the precepts developed within a lay Theravadin sangha, and was not considered out of line or radical by either the laity or the ordained sangha. It was the Forest Sangha tradition... longtime practitioners... good old friends. Solid Buddhists. Theravada is not a monolith either...


Gassho, kojip.

[Jinyo]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

What's this about Santa Claus !!! :shock: :shock:

... and the tooth fairy

(I can still remember the excitement of finding a coin under my pillow when I was a kid )

Willow

[Graceleejenkins]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

I’ve been thinking about this. Do I feel my parents lied to me about Santa Claus? Santa Claus is one of my most cherished memories from childhood, and it gave me pleasure to grow into being a Secret Santa myself. I don’t feel like my parents lied to me.

I think they” played along” having all intention that I would know and understand the literal truth in the not too distant future. I think they gave me something special along the lines of “Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.”

I believe the definition of “lie” can be taken too literally in the case of Santa Claus, as if we are missing the connotation of the word “lie” and staying strictly with the denotation. I think “play along” is the better definition in the case of Santa Claus. Gassho, Grace

[Amelia]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

I will probably continue the Santa tradition if I have a family. I've considered that I might be open about the fact that it would be me doing the presents though, once children get old enough to start asking questions. My boyfriend's family is like that. They get presents from Santa, though everyone knows who Santa really is.

Personally, when I found out that Santa wasn't real, I didn't have any bad reaction to it. It made sense and I didn't feel that my mom was lying to me. I knew why she did it: it was just a fun tradition from her own childhood.

I agree with you, Grace.

[Seisou]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

Always good to remember: "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own experience and common sense." -The Buddha
Gassho
Jeff

[Khalil Bodhi]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

Always good to remember: "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own experience and common sense." -The Buddha
Gassho
Jeff

HI Jeff,

This is actually a pretty poor translation/interpretation of the Kalama Sutta. If you're interested in a getting a more in-depth understanding read here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/a...-essay_09.html

Gassho,

Mike

[Ekai]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

On the other hand, telling my wife that her dress makes her look 10 years younger ... well, only a little bad Karma perhaps, and much good Karma in my house! 8)

Gassho, Jundo

:lol:

Gassho,
Ekai

[Ekai]

Re: Kinda weird question about Right Speech

I cherish my childhood memories of believing in Santa Claus and it created a beautiful and magical Christmas in our home. I am grateful for my parents giving me the gift of Santa Claus because their intention was based on love and generosity. They just wanted to me make happy during the holiday season and it worked.

Gassho,
Ekai