The Real Deal?

[Nenka]

Re: The Real Deal?

While I have no problem with the idea of being required to sit with the zazenkai, I do have a technical problem. I've been struggling to make the recorded Justin TV sits work for me for some time now, but within the last month it has just plain become impossible, and I've noticed others struggling to make it work as well. I just gave up. For the past few weeks I've just been doing the 90-minute sit on my own with a timer.

I know there's some revamping going on here at Treeleaf which is probably techie priority and I don't know how much interest there would be in switching to yet another free (or even pay) broadcasting service for the zazenkai, but if anyone else is thinking about it, my vote is so YES.

Gassho,

Jen

[Ekai]

Re: The Real Deal?

While I have no problem with the idea of being required to sit with the zazenkai, I do have a technical problem. I've been struggling to make the recorded Justin TV sits work for me for some time now, but within the last month it has just plain become impossible, and I've noticed others struggling to make it work as well. I just gave up. For the past few weeks I've just been doing the 90-minute sit on my own with a timer.

I know there's some revamping going on here at Treeleaf which is probably techie priority and I don't know how much interest there would be in switching to yet another free (or even pay) broadcasting service for the zazenkai, but if anyone else is thinking about it, my vote is so YES.

Gassho,

Jen

I would like to a version where the Zazenkai can viewed on an iPad or other tablets. JustinTV doesn't work on my iPad since it uses Flash. With the growing number of tablet users, this might be a good idea to investigate. I am willing to take the time to look if there's interest.

Gassho,
Ekai

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: The Real Deal?

Yes, flash-less would be amazing!

/Pontus

[Hoyu]

Re: The Real Deal?

Hi All,

A little late to the party but let me share my opinions....

Treeleaf is the real deal 8)

Everything in life(treeleaf included) is what you make of it :x

Never ending thank you to our guiding teachers for ALL their work! I thank you daily by sitting :wink: _/_

Many great posts here for which I thank each and every one of you

Rev Jundo's suggestion is more than fair :idea:

Perhaps a YouTube version of recorded Zazenkai for further accessibility for sangha members :?:

Just Sit :!:

Hope I didn't forget anything :shock:

[Dokan]

Re: The Real Deal?

I do have a technical problem.

Technical? Problem?

I've been struggling to make the recorded Justin TV sits work for me for some time now, but within the last month it has just plain become impossible, and I've noticed others struggling to make it work as well.

What about something like this:

[youtube]

[/youtube]

All I did was download the flv file from Justin.tv and then uploaded it to YouTube.

In this way, the live sitters still get the personal interaction of Justin.tv and those who sit after can still get the ease of use with YouTube.

Would be wonderful one day to get G+ but there are two major issues today, no recording of the video & only 10 persons. I haven't seen anything in the development area of G+ that shows this will change anytime soon...but would be nice.

Gassho,

Dokan

[disastermouse]

Re: The Real Deal?

I have no doubt that Treeleaf is the 'real deal' Jundo and Taigu have been the most 'available' teachers I've ever had access to, both in Soto, White Plum, or any other lineage. It's really quite remarkable. The question becomes not whether Treeleaf is the 'real deal' but whether we are the 'real deal'. Are we sitting diligently (with no goal)? Do we make adequate use of the resources available here?

Personally, I have been woefully inadequate here - but I take responsibility for that. It is not due to a flaw with the Sangha, certainly. Here's a thought - and maybe it's addressed - perhaps we can have a transcript of the pre- and post-zazen rituals/chants so that we can perform them divorced from the justin.tv thing?

If you want to find flaw in the sangha, the teachers, the teachings, or the rest of the people here - it's easy to do. For myself, it may be more useful to examine first the flaws in my own practice or lack of practice.

Gassho

Chet

[BrianL]

Re: The Real Deal?

...just another vote for something Flash-less - my primary is an iPad...

[Rich]

Re: The Real Deal?

If I started sitting Zazenkai with you 1am in the night, my wife would throw me out! :shock: :wink:

Hey Pontus,

Our weekly Zazenkai sittings are available 24 hours, on demand, any place and any time at the click of a button (besides being timeless and all places, of course!) ... They are not bound by time zones, so there is no reason one must sit at 1am ... Here they are:

viewforum.php?f=11

I believe that folks should sit them because sitting is at the heart and soul (if we believed in a soul 8) ) of this Practice ... AND TO EVIDENCE AND SUPPORT COMMUNITY UNITY! It is much like parents say to their children, "We must gather now for a family meal, all together, no matter how busy we all are," Just for someone to make the silly effort to participate ... even from a distance ... with the recorded ceremony and sitting together ... AND TO LEAVE A MESSAGE AFTER SAYING, "THANK YOU, I WAS THERE WITH YOU" ... builds this small family and encourages others.

Imagine a Zen Sangha meeting in a building where most folks would show up for the Zen discussions ... then leave to go home before the sitting started! It would be ridiculous.

Therefore, I am now considering and discussing imposing a rule soon: Our members who have been around here for more than a year must sit at least one community Zazenkai every month (unless they have a very good excuse and reason not to) ... and post a message to the community that they have so sat ... or their access to this forum/registration and participation in the Sangha will be suspended (after a polite reminder or two). This rule is now under discussion between Taigu and me, but I want to go for it.

Frankly, sitting Zazen and joining in our little Heart Sutra Ceremony at Zazenkai ... TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY, not just in our own little rooms ... even if symbolically and at a distance ... is too central to Practice. In a brick and mortar Sangha, if you only showed up for the cookies and chit chat ... and did not come to sittings ... I think they would ask you not to do so too.

Gassho, Jundo

I'm almost always sitting at -New York 7pm, (Friday night) - so I will check into the live zazenkai.

[Jinyo]

Re: The Real Deal?

'Technical? Problem? '

Hi Dokan - don't take that hat off yet

I have two problems - the picture breaks up and a lot of sound interference. Not sure if the problem's my
end or if this is something that will be resolved with new donated equipment?

Thanks

Willow

[pinoybuddhist]

Re: The Real Deal?

This is great! I also have trouble getting the recorded Justin TV to play.

I do have a technical problem.

Technical? Problem?

I've been struggling to make the recorded Justin TV sits work for me for some time now, but within the last month it has just plain become impossible, and I've noticed others struggling to make it work as well.

What about something like this:

[youtube]

[/youtube]

All I did was download the flv file from Justin.tv and then uploaded it to YouTube.

In this way, the live sitters still get the personal interaction of Justin.tv and those who sit after can still get the ease of use with YouTube.

Would be wonderful one day to get G+ but there are two major issues today, no recording of the video & only 10 persons. I haven't seen anything in the development area of G+ that shows this will change anytime soon...but would be nice.

Gassho,

Dokan

[Dokan]

Re: The Real Deal?

I have two problems - the picture breaks up and a lot of sound interference. Not sure if the problem's my
end or if this is something that will be resolved with new donated equipment?

I think this is a problem with the recording but not 100% sure without evidence. Do you remember which recording this was and I can check. If it's all of them then I think it could be something on your side unfortunately. Lots of times the recorded talks can over-utilize bandwidth on your internet connection. You'll need a broadband connection of 500+Kbps for the best viewing experience. If you are watching YouTube and your video download speed is slow or inconsistent, you can try pausing the video until the entire stream is downloaded and then playing the video.

Justin.tv is a whole other animal. Since it's live streaming (when watching live) it will buffer on the fly and may/may not work on slower connections. Playback afterwards can be a bit wonky as well. I have 25Mbps up and down internet at home and I can't play some of the Zazenkais...othertimes I can. Seems hit or miss.

Hope this helps!

Gassho,

Dokan

[Jundo]

Re: The Real Deal?

I would think newbies might need a few months to settle down to this - if someone's never meditated before it may take time to get used to longer periods?

Just to mention on the length ...

Almost every one of the many many many Zazen groups I have visited in Europe, America and Japan over the years has had a weekly Zazen meeting in length from 90 minutes to 4 hours each time, for new and old alike. If you went to any Zazen sitting in a building you would be expected to sit the same lengths, and it is not considered particularly long.

Although it varies from place to place, standard sitting time for each single Zazen period is often even longer than ours, sometimes 40 to 50 minutes until Kinhin, followed by another 40 to 50 minutes, repeated two or three sets. (At our Zazenkai, sittings are mostly 30 minutes with lots of Kinhin).

The feeling "this is long" is psychological, not really a matter of the legs and such not being able to do so (especially since, at our extremely liberal and forgiving Sangha, I let people walk Kinhin any time the wish when the legs hurt).

Gassho, J

[Jundo]

Re: The Real Deal?

One more point, if I may ...

It is rather a RIDUCULOUS, POINTLESS thing to sit Zazenkai and a Ceremony with a video from the other side of the world, by yourself and days later, staring at a computer screen. Silly and useless to have to boot up and set up the computer to do that, even as the computer noise may be felt to distract us in the peace and quiet of our Zazen room.

But ya know ...

So many rituals, old customs and strange procedures in a Zen monastery in China or Japan are seemingly just as RIDICULOUS AND POINTLESS .... In fact, the very heart of this Practice is dropping from mind in Zazen all judgments and thoughts of "ridiculous" "pointless" "reason and goal" "here and there" "yesterday today tomorrow" ... and then the Real Point is found. If you think it is distracting ... you have yet to learn that the "distraction" is found right between your own ears.

So, in fact, this RIDICULOUS, POINTLESS, USELESS act of sitting with a silly recording of a silly ceremony and sitting is very useful in such mastery beyond "useful and useless"! As Kodo Sawaki Roshi said ...

In the world, it’s always about winning or losing, plus or minus. Yet in Zazen, it’s about nothing. It’s good for nothing. That’s why it is the greatest and most all-inclusive thing there is.

...

When somebody asks me what zazen is good for, I say that zazen isn’t good for anything at all. And then some say that in that case they’d rather stop doing zazen. But what’s running around satisfying your desires good for? What is gambling good for? And dancing? What is it good for to get worked up over winning or losing in baseball? It’s all good for absolutely nothing! That’s why nothing is as sensible as sitting silently in zazen. In the world, “good for nothing” just means that you can’t make money out of it.

...

What’s zazen good for? Absolutely nothing! This “good for nothing” has got to sink into your flesh and bones until you’re?truly practicing what’s good for nothing. Until then, your zazen is really good for nothing.

Gassho, J

[murasaki]

Re: The Real Deal?

So, in fact, this RIDICULOUS, POINTLESS and useless act of sitting with a silly recording of a silly ceremony and sitting is very useful in such mastery beyond "useful and useless"! As Kodo Sawaki Roshi said ...

...aaaaaand with that go my excuses for not doing the recordings! I concur with Chet that I acknowledge my own shortcomings and they've got nothing to do with Treeleaf.

Are the zazenkai some of us have the ability to do locally a separate issue then, or would it be counted in any way towards the new requirements? Not that I am promoting that (it would seem to me that it shouldn't count), but just to clarify as there are several members here who do have access to local sitting. I think that needs to be put in perspective relative to Internet practice for us. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this, Jundo and Taigu.

Gassho
Julia

[Jundo]

Re: The Real Deal?

Are the zazenkai some of us have the ability to do locally a separate issue then, or would it be counted in any way towards the new requirements? Not that I am promoting that (it would seem to me that it shouldn't count), but just to clarify as there are several members here who do have access to local sitting. I think that needs to be put in perspective relative to Internet practice for us. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this, Jundo and Taigu.

Gassho
Julia

Our weekly Zazenkai is our Sangha Community sitting and is the time we all gather, so local sittings "don't count" towards that.

I mean ... they count, but not towards that ... and anyway, who's counting? :wink:

Gassho, J