The Real Deal?

[Shonin]

Re: The Real Deal?

Taigu, is an online man hug appropriate grattitude?

_/_

[Taigu]

Re: The Real Deal?

Hi everybody,

I red my latest post again and I must say that the way I phrased it was very clumsy, to say the least.

I apologize to you, my mistake.

And I would like to say that in the light of what I experienced the last few months, the thing I really want to say is that what is needed is gratitude but not in the form of hugs, dropping amen post to our vids, but just in the form of diligent practice. Jundo was telling me how surprised and also a bit upset he was to see so few people sitting with him on line.Gratitude? For instance if we give you a pointer, a teaching of some sort, you are invited to put it to practice before opening your mouth and not throw praises and criticisms before the reality check.

Now, if you want to spend your time catching me at being faulty, clumsy and counting my mistakes, you are going to be very busy , because I am not perfect :roll: :wink: .

I strongly think that our real job is to tidy up our room and look solely at our own self.

And I you don't like bad cops, ask yourself the question: who in me doesn 't like it? You may be very surprised with the answer you get.

Take great care


gassho



T.

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: The Real Deal?

None of us are perfect. I often express myself very clumsily... ops: Very good practice! :lol:

Anyway, thanks for the clarification Taigu!

As for practice, I am the only real judge of my own practice. But I need a teacher and I need a Sangha. I always listen to and try to understand what you and Jundo say, even when it challenges my views. I would love to sit with you more, but... Here I was going to list all my excuses, but they do not matter. OK, only one! If I started sitting Zazenkai with you 1am in the night, my wife would throw me out! :shock: :wink:

I will try to sit with you more regularly on G+ though, when things slow down a little! ops:
Can't promise I won't continue to praise posts or videos that really speak to me, even before putting them to practice! :twisted:
Most times that praise comes natually, spontaneously, from the heart. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Big hug, :mrgreen:
Pontus

[Jinyo]

Re: The Real Deal?

Taigu wrote

Jundo was telling me how surprised and also a bit upset he was to see so few people sitting with him on line.Gratitude? For instance if we give you a pointer, a teaching of some sort, you are invited to put it to practice before opening your mouth and not throw praises and criticisms before the reality check.

Is the sense that members don't visit/sit with netcasts at later time? Perhaps we should always leave a message if we've visited?

I really don't want to go on about my illness - there are concretre reasons why skype is problematic for me (can't even manage for more than a couple of minutes with my sister in Australia or my grandchildren). The keyboard has to be my medium of communication - in the main.

I do watch your videos Taigu - your presence is very still and this works for me. Jundo - you are a big personality (I like it fine but I have to confess I 'enjoyed'
the heart dancing sutra with my eyes half-closed :shock: This is just me - with my annoying physical difficulties - no big deal. But 'gratitude' is not always possible to put into practice as I'd like.

Anyway - I feel we should close on this subject now.

I guess Sangha's are like families. A bit of this a bit of that and this :evil: and sometimes just :|

all part of life's rich tapestry

Gassho

Willow

[Shokai]

Re: The Real Deal?

Willow wrote;

Anyway - I feel we should close on this subject now.

"Couldn't Hurt!" :lol:

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: The Real Deal?

Anyway - I feel we should close on this subject now.

I guess Sangha's are like families. A bit of this a bit of that and this :evil: and sometimes just :|

all part of life's rich tapestry

I believe most families would benefit from more direct and honest communication, so threads like this are important.
By being clear and open there is less need to carry things with us. Better to allow each other to express our feelings in an open and honest way, so that afterwards they can be put down.

Two traveling monks reached a river where they met a young woman. Wary of the current, she asked if they could carry her across. One of the monks hesitated, but the other quickly picked her up onto his shoulders, transported her across the water, and put her down on the other bank. She thanked him and departed.

As the monks continued on their way, the one was brooding and preoccupied. Unable to hold his silence, he spoke out. "Brother, our spiritual training teaches us to avoid any contact with women, but you picked that one up on your shoulders and carried her!"

"Brother," the second monk replied, "I set her down on the other side, while you are still carrying her."

Gassho,
/Pontus

[Shugen]

The Real Deal?

_/|_

Ron


Shugen

[alan.r]

Re: The Real Deal?

I know we're closing this thread, but just a last thing (and from a newb at that). I can completely understand some irritation from Jundo or Taigu with people only wanting to talk zen, talk shikantaza, talk, talk, talk, when what this is about is shutting up and sitting down. If there were only a couple people sitting, and I was a teacher here, I'd also maybe feel: Man, am I not getting through?

When I sit in my home, I sit. And it's never about me, but it also is kind of, simply because I'm isolated. But here, it's definitely not about me or you or you or you. Here, if anywhere, it's about Us, the big Us. Right?

So, we have to consider that Us-ness, be that Us-ness.

Or somesuch.

[Jundo]

Re: The Real Deal?

If I started sitting Zazenkai with you 1am in the night, my wife would throw me out! :shock: :wink:

Hey Pontus,

Our weekly Zazenkai sittings are available 24 hours, on demand, any place and any time at the click of a button (besides being timeless and all places, of course!) ... They are not bound by time zones, so there is no reason one must sit at 1am ... Here they are:

viewforum.php?f=11

I believe that folks should sit them because sitting is at the heart and soul (if we believed in a soul 8) ) of this Practice ... AND TO EVIDENCE AND SUPPORT COMMUNITY UNITY! It is much like parents say to their children, "We must gather now for a family meal, all together, no matter how busy we all are," Just for someone to make the silly effort to participate ... even from a distance ... with the recorded ceremony and sitting together ... AND TO LEAVE A MESSAGE AFTER SAYING, "THANK YOU, I WAS THERE WITH YOU" ... builds this small family and encourages others.

Imagine a Zen Sangha meeting in a building where most folks would show up for the Zen discussions ... then leave to go home before the sitting started! It would be ridiculous.

Therefore, I am now considering and discussing imposing a rule soon: Our members who have been around here for more than a year must sit at least one community Zazenkai every month (unless they have a very good excuse and reason not to) ... and post a message to the community that they have so sat ... or their access to this forum/registration and participation in the Sangha will be suspended (after a polite reminder or two). This rule is now under discussion between Taigu and me, but I want to go for it.

Frankly, sitting Zazen and joining in our little Heart Sutra Ceremony at Zazenkai ... TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY, not just in our own little rooms ... even if symbolically and at a distance ... is too central to Practice. In a brick and mortar Sangha, if you only showed up for the cookies and chit chat ... and did not come to sittings ... I think they would ask you not to do so too.

Gassho, Jundo

[Daijo]

Re: The Real Deal?

I have no problem whatsoever with rules when they serve a purpose. This rule I think is a great one. I wonder though, why are you considering limiting it to more senior members? From my perspective, as a newbie, it would be good for us as well. It would clarify exactly what was expected and give a good starting point for tree leaf practice. It might also clear up that dreadful "what next" question.

I mean, I plan to participate and leave my comments anyway, especially if there is going to be dancing :lol: But if you did make it mandatory for membership, I don't think it would turn any one off. And if it did, maybe this isn't for them at this time.

[Omoi Otoshi]

The Real Deal?

Thank you Jundo, I see what you mean.

In gratitude for your and Taigu's efforts I will make an effort to overcome my aversion to sitting the recorded version of Zazenkai. This may hopefully also be good for my practice. I will also make an effort to find the necessary time to do so. Right now it does feel like putting another expectation, another stress factor, on top of everything else, but once a month is not exactly asking the impossible. With a little more planning and dedication it should be perfectly doable.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Shugen]

The Real Deal?

If I started sitting Zazenkai with you 1am in the night, my wife would throw me out! :shock: :wink:

Hey Pontus,

Our weekly Zazenkai sittings are available 24 hours, on demand, any place and any time at the click of a button (besides being timeless and all places, of course!) ... They are not bound by time zones, so there is no reason one must sit at 1am ... Here they are:

viewforum.php?f=11

I believe that folks should sit them because sitting is at the heart and soul (if we believed in a soul 8) ) of this Practice ... AND TO EVIDENCE AND SUPPORT COMMUNITY UNITY! It is much like parents say to their children, "We must gather now for a family meal, all together, no matter how busy we all are," Just for someone to make the silly effort to participate ... even from a distance ... with the recorded ceremony and sitting together ... AND TO LEAVE A MESSAGE AFTER SAYING, "THANK YOU, I WAS THERE WITH YOU" ... builds this small family and encourages others.

Imagine a Zen Sangha meeting in a building where most folks would show up for the Zen discussions ... then leave to go home before the sitting started! It would be ridiculous.

Therefore, I am now considering and discussing imposing a rule soon: Our members who have been around here for more than a year must sit at least one community Zazenkai every month (unless they have a very good excuse and reason not to) ... and post a message to the community that they have so sat ... or their access to this forum/registration and participation in the Sangha will be suspended (after a polite reminder or two). This rule is now under discussion between Taigu and me, but I want to go for it.

Frankly, sitting Zazen and joining in our little Heart Sutra Ceremony at Zazenkai ... TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY, not just in our own little rooms ... even if symbolically and at a distance ... is too central to Practice. In a brick and mortar Sangha, if you only showed up for the cookies and chit chat ... and did not come to sittings ... I think they would ask you not to do so too.

Gassho, Jundo

Ok.

Ron


Shugen

[Ekai]

Re: The Real Deal?

If I started sitting Zazenkai with you 1am in the night, my wife would throw me out! :shock: :wink:

Hey Pontus,

Our weekly Zazenkai sittings are available 24 hours, on demand, any place and any time at the click of a button (besides being timeless and all places, of course!) ... They are not bound by time zones, so there is no reason one must sit at 1am ... Here they are:

viewforum.php?f=11

I believe that folks should sit them because sitting is at the heart and soul (if we believed in a soul 8) ) of this Practice ... AND TO EVIDENCE AND SUPPORT COMMUNITY UNITY! It is much like parents say to their children, "We must gather now for a family meal, all together, no matter how busy we all are," Just for someone to make the silly effort to participate ... even from a distance ... with the recorded ceremony and sitting together ... AND TO LEAVE A MESSAGE AFTER SAYING, "THANK YOU, I WAS THERE WITH YOU" ... builds this small family and encourages others.

Imagine a Zen Sangha meeting in a building where most folks would show up for the Zen discussions ... then leave to go home before the sitting started! It would be ridiculous.

Therefore, I am now considering and discussing imposing a rule soon: Our members who have been around here for more than a year must sit at least one community Zazenkai every month (unless they have a very good excuse and reason not to) ... and post a message to the community that they have so sat ... or their access to this forum/registration and participation in the Sangha will be suspended (after a polite reminder or two). This rule is now under discussion between Taigu and me, but I want to go for it.

Frankly, sitting Zazen and joining in our little Heart Sutra Ceremony at Zazenkai ... TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY, not just in our own little rooms ... even if symbolically and at a distance ... is too central to Practice. In a brick and mortar Sangha, if you only showed up for the cookies and chit chat ... and did not come to sittings ... I think they would ask you not to do so too.

Gassho, Jundo

Ok.

Ron


Shugen

Double OK.

Gassho,
Ekai

[Jinyo]

Re: The Real Deal?

Hi there - Jundo this is why I asked

'Is it the sense that members don't visit/sit with netcasts at later time? Perhaps we should always leave a message if we've visited?'

Quite understand that you want people to actually 'sit' - not just fleetingly visit. There seem to be a lot of views/visits recorded in the numbers - but as you've noted not many comments to indicate members have actually sat.

I would think newbies might need a few months to settle down to this - if someone's never meditated before it may take time to get used to longer periods?

Once a month seems a very reasonable commitment to ask - especially as it can be at any time (but personally I will need to break it down into segments - with breathing spaces - as I won't sustain for the full time). Presumably that is something individuals can negotiate with you if necessary?

Gassho

Willow

[BrianL]

Re: The Real Deal?

As a newbie, I'd fully support a system by which we demonstate our committment to time on the cushion!