Csíkszentmihályi - Flow

[Eika]

Re: Csíkszentmihályi - Flow

I don't know a great deal of his writings, but I do recall reading something of his about creativity and the unfettered flow that is required to be truly creative. It certainly relates to zen discussions of not-trying-but-doing. Whatever I read contained a lot of interviews with folks from a variety of creative fields and nearly all of them stated some variation of one cannot intentionally be creative, but one practices skills until they are 2nd nature and thereby transcends the need to intentionally call upon those skills. They become imbedded in our lives. Then, when the conditions are right, we simply create--without effort, without intent, without meta-awareness that we are now creating. In sports it's sometimes called "the zone." In jazz, it's being "on." I'm sure there are other informal names in other fields, too.

As it relates to zen, my take is that immersion in daily life is "the zone," the place where we non-intentionally utilize the practice of shikantaza to create the "now."

I may be mis-remembering. I'll see if I can find his book in all of my mess.

Thanks for bringing him up, Pontus.

Eika

[Jundo]

Re: Csíkszentmihályi - Flow

"In his seminal work, Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience, Csíkszentmihályi outlines his theory that people are most happy when they are in a state of flow— a state of concentration or complete absorption with the activity at hand and the situation. It is a state in which people are so involved in an activity that nothing else seems to matter (Csikszentmihalyi,1990). The idea of flow is identical to the feeling of being in the zone or in the groove.

I would just drop this in, my view.

I believe that the "in the Zone" absorption is but "a single tool on the mutli-faceted Zen toolbelt", not 'the only one. In other words, people sometime think that "the key point of Zen" is to attain the ability to be such "totally absorbed in the groove" way all the time, in all activites, non-stop, whatever it is. I believe ... not so. Rather. 'tis one way of being that we can learn to access. Good for martial artists, calligraphers, Oryoki eating, dancers, pianists and the like (when martial arting, calligraphing, Oryokiing, dancing and playing and the like) ... but just one way of being. Not the only way, or the only aspect of this practice.

Frankly, to be that way all the time, in every situation, would be to become something of a robot or machine, deprived of the richness of many other ways of experiencing life.

It is one of those mental states that we can put back on the toolbelt when not called for, and at other times in life. Heck, sometimes we Oryoki with full absorption and unity ... sometimes we just grab a sandwich, switch on the Ipod and read the sports paper while thinking about getting the car an oil change.

Gassho, J

[Dokan]

Re: Csíkszentmihályi - Flow

Amazing coincidence. I had read (some of) this book just last month. A friend of mine who is involved in ZMM (leads shakuhachi retreats there in the summer) recommended it, and so I thought it'd be worth a read. I bought it on Kindle and ended up stopping about 1/3 the way through. It wasn't that it was 'bad', just felt that it wasn't worth my time. It's kind of one of those books that are interesting to read, but I know as I'm reading it that I'll take little away from it. My critical mind creeps in and dissects every phrase. That being said, please do not be hindered by my opinion if you want to give it a look. Just wasn't for me...I have a bookshelf of books I've gathered over the years waiting to be read. Interesting topic however.

Gassho,

Dokan

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Csíkszentmihályi - Flow

I believe that the "in the Zone" absorption is but "a single tool on the mutli-faceted Zen toolbelt", not 'the only one. In other words, people sometime think that "the key point of Zen" is to attain the ability to be such "totally absorbed in the groove" way all the time, in all activites, non-stop, whatever it is. I believe ... not so. Rather. 'tis one way of being that we can learn to access. Good for martial artists, calligraphers, Oryoki eating, dancers, pianists and the like (when martial arting, calligraphing, Oryokiing, dancing and playing and the like) ... but just one way of being. Not the only way, or the only aspect of this practice.

That is not all of Zen, that would be to diminish Zen buddhism

Thank you Jundo, I very much agree!
It's like expecting to live all of your life in samadhi, wishing it was so. I have heard of a Roshi who said that if he could only live one day of his life without leaving samadhi, then he would be happy. That's dukkha, in my opinion. But very human, very touching. Even though you may manage to increase the amount of time you're in the zone and feel untouchable by dukkha, eventually you will drop out of it and feel miserable with your crappy life, longing to be back in the zone, just like a heroin addict coming off a high. No, I believe more in no gain - no pain, just accepting the wonder of what is, as it is. Still, I think those moments of one-pointedness are an important part of life, if seen for what they are, just one state of mind among others, wonderful but impermanent, natural but not the goal of practice or life, nothing to be fetished as the truth and taken refuge in.

Gassho,
Pontus

[Hoyu]

Re: Csíkszentmihályi - Flow

Jundo wrote:
sometimes we Oryoki with full absorption and unity ... sometimes we just grab a sandwich, switch on the Ipod and read the sports paper while thinking about getting the car an oil change.

_/_

[Rev R]

Re: Csíkszentmihályi - Flow

late to the party as usual. this "flow" sounds rather static to these ears.