Human Route By Zen Master Seung Sahn

[andyZ]

Re: Human Route By Zen Master Seung Sahn

.... sometimes (actually quite often!) I get lost in this enigmatic dance between 'mind' and the illumination of 'no-self' - the present moment, etc

I find myself wanting to stick up for the 'mind' - because without it I feel we are lost. Yes the 'mind' can be deluded - but it is also the means by which we integrate the stuff of life - with the mind we can lovingly sculpt the 'core' self - not the 'false' self that causes so many problems. The 'authentic' self and the 'no-self' - they seem related to me.

I sense there may be some resistence to the above - I am still finding my way through the relationship between buddhism, psychology, psychotherapy, humanism, etc
Would really appreciate the thoughts of others on this.

Gassho,
Willow

In one of the sutras it is said that "the three realms of existence are nothing but mind". So even the greatest enlightenment of "no body and mind" is the product of mind and doesn't really exist outside of it. So I don't think that anyone is trying to get rid of the mind, even if it was possible.

[Jundo]

Re: Human Route By Zen Master Seung Sahn

I find myself wanting to stick up for the 'mind' - because without it I feel we are lost. Yes the 'mind' can be deluded - but it is also the means by which we integrate the stuff of life - with the mind we can lovingly sculpt the 'core' self - not the 'false' self that causes so many problems. The 'authentic' self and the 'no-self' - they seem related to me.

YES, A BIG Koan! And one of those opportunities for me to pull out the old Zen teacher quip (but truly, not a "cop out"):

Just Keep Sitting, Keep Practicing.

See what happens. Truly, that is not a "cop out" or ducking the question, but is facing them head on.

Gassho, Jundo

[Jinyo]

Re: Human Route By Zen Master Seung Sahn

.... sometimes (actually quite often!) I get lost in this enigmatic dance between 'mind' and the illumination of 'no-self' - the present moment, etc

I find myself wanting to stick up for the 'mind' - because without it I feel we are lost. Yes the 'mind' can be deluded - but it is also the means by which we integrate the stuff of life - with the mind we can lovingly sculpt the 'core' self - not the 'false' self that causes so many problems. The 'authentic' self and the 'no-self' - they seem related to me.

I sense there may be some resistence to the above - I am still finding my way through the relationship between buddhism, psychology, psychotherapy, humanism, etc
Would really appreciate the thoughts of others on this.

Gassho,

Willow

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: Human Route By Zen Master Seung Sahn

Sometimes I can spend hours thinking, "what is that one pure thing?" or "what is this life?" "what is death?"

No satisfying answers ever come.

But this morning while drinking coffee, eating breakfast, i realized that in that moment, if we are willing to look and see, everything we have been searching for was right there all along.

The answer to our questions doesn't come from the mind, from our thinking about stuff.

because there is no answer to be found that is separate from the question itself.

"What is life and death?" Who is asking the question? Where is this question coming from? Find that. Understand that. And realize that there is no difference between life, death, you, other, enlightenment, delusion.

Enough of my rambling...Happy Sunday to you all

No rambling! :lol:

I'm happy for you! In some moments, everything is so clear.
Then, at least for me, not so clear anymore... But as Rev Jundo says, life can not always be clear blue skies!
I know very little about these things, but here are my thoughts anyway. :lol: ops:
I am not you and I have no idea about the nature of your experience, but I consider some of my own experiences, that may or may not be similar to yours, to be just cool moments in life, nothing special. Nothing to cling to. But I don't see any reason not to be thankful, like we are thankful for many things in life and practice. My personal take is that they should neither be celebrated as an achievement nor be rejected as bunk or bullshit. Just aknowledge them and leave them be, without trying to repeat them or dwell in the memory of them, without letting the ego transform them into something they are not. Which is not so easy when you found the experience to be very profound... But the now is what matters, not the past or the future. If there is great faith and clarity arriving in this moment, then that is so. If there is not, then that is also so.

Enjoy your day!

/Pontus

[Myoku]

Re: Human Route By Zen Master Seung Sahn

Gassho Seiryu,
Myoku

[Jundo]

Re: Human Route By Zen Master Seung Sahn

Thank you, Seiryu.

The clouds are also the sky ... light, boundless, clear ... when flown through as such. Birds are the sky, flying here and there while leaving no traces.

A blue sky ever without clouds and birds would be so very lifeless.



Gassho, J

[RichardH]

Re: Human Route By Zen Master Seung Sahn

[
because there is no answer to be found that is separate from the question itself.

"What is life and death?" Who is asking the question? Where is this question coming from? Find that. Understand that. And realize that there is no difference between life, death, you, other, enlightenment, delusion.

Enough of my rambling...Happy Sunday to you all

Hi Seiryu. That doesn't sound like rambling to me. When both questions and answers and all reaching and grasping cease.....O

Personally I have aversion to the use of ontological terms around this, even simple ones like "reality", and "true nature", and feel that the descriptor "Cessation of Dukkha" is least likely to project subtle notions of an absolute. .....but I'm an eccentric that way, probably because I grasped such terms tightly. It may not be the case for others.

[Seiryu]

Coming empty-handed,

going empty-handed -- that is human.

When you are born, where do you come from?

When you die, where do you go?

Life is like a floating cloud which appears.

Death is like a floating cloud which disappears.

The floating cloud itself originally does not exist.

Life and death, coming and going, are also like that.

But there is one thing which always remains clear.

It is pure and clear, not depending on life and death.

Then what is the one pure and clear thing?

I have always loved this poem by ZM Seung Sahn.

Sometimes I can spend hours thinking, "what is that one pure thing?" or "what is this life?" "what is death?"

No satisfying answers ever come.

But this morning while drinking coffee, eating breakfast, i realized that in that moment, if we are willing to look and see, everything we have been searching for was right there all along.

The answer to our questions doesn't come from the mind, from our thinking about stuff.

because there is no answer to be found that is separate from the question itself.

"What is life and death?" Who is asking the question? Where is this question coming from? Find that. Understand that. And realize that there is no difference between life, death, you, other, enlightenment, delusion.

Enough of my rambling...Happy Sunday to you all