False Teachings

[Omoi Otoshi]

Re: False Teachings

Right, exactly...different paths for different people - but we're more offended by a path that's closer to ours, but different enough to feel like a distortion of our actual path. Or so it seems.

Maybe. There are some rituals and practices even here on Treeleaf that I, personally, in this moment, don't practice. I can't put my finger on exactly why. They are not for me, right now. But I can see why others find them important and I don't rule out the possibility that I will embrace all of them all in the future. Or maybe those practices are my path, but for some reason I'm hesitant to walk it, to commit, to throw myself off the cliff. Maybe I'm afraid that down this path there is a real dragon? Or maybe it is not exactly my path, so I try to make my own, while still staying close to and watching the nearby main path, for safety and guidance.

My introduction to Zazen was when I read a book about different forms of meditation. When I came to Zen and Shikantaza it was just right. I knew that would be my practice. The author of that book had probably practiced with a Rinzai teacher, because he spent a lot of pages discussing Koan introspection, with a red-hot iron ball is stuck in your throat and all that. I tried some Koans for a while, even during Zazen. Maybe if I had had a RInzai teacher I would have continued, but somehow I doubt it. I felt much more at home when I started exploring Shikantaza and was drawn to Soto more than Rinzai. But, again, different paths for different people. I don't think everybody's suited to Shikantaza. While I find some of the practices of Rinzai very peculiar, like hitting people with a stick, I don't see that or shouting MUUUU as very important in Rinzai. It's not the core, just something you notice as an outsider. The important parts are probably the same as in Soto, just different paths for different people. I can't really see Rinzai as a distortion of my own path. It's just another path.

Are extremist right-wing Christians in America representative of the core of the Christian message? Are arab dictators and terrorists presenting a fair picture of Islam? Is Genpo a Zen Master, a Zenji? I would not judge these religions by the acts and words of these representatives. To me, they don't represent the core of the Christian, Islamic or Buddhist teachings. And I can't judge any other religion, because I haven't walked those other paths. I can feel anger over the words and acts by these self-proclaimed representatives, but if you look at the motives behind their actions, the teachings are just used to cover the three poisons, greed, hatred and delusion. I don't really feel they have anything to do with me, or my own path.

/Pontus

[RichardH]

Re: False Teachings

A thoughtful, modern person. That's who you are to judge.

I make judgements all the time, it's a normal function, but if I hold my views to be the true measure of all things I'm not practising, I've lost it. It can be easy to get swept up in views, but in practice views are views as such. Views are touch and go. If I grasp a view as Truth I get taken for a ride, get born as a reactive thing . It's a drag.

[Omoi Otoshi]

False Teachings

I judge your words to be true Kojip!

[RichardH]

Re: False Teachings

I judge your words to be true Kojip!

True enough to do the trick I think. Teachers in every Sangha IME have been clear about view and view attachment. I still have views but it's not the same. The compulsive need to get a conceptual handle on life, and all the little backhanded ways of grasping for The Truth, that stuff just breaks down after a while.

[ghop]

Re: False Teachings

I mean yeah - peace, pot, and microdot and all that, but have to go out of your way to find similarities between Christianity and Zen.

I think just as important as finding similarities between religions (and anything for that matter) is being comfortable with our differences. Nobody ever killed another person for believing in the golden rule. But be careful when questioning someone's theology or doctrine! You might end up dead, or worse :mrgreen: .

Who cares if Jesus and Buddha have things in common. It's like saying frog legs taste like chicken. It may be so, but they ain't the same. Eat what you like. Eat what fills you up. Don't take someone else's food or criticise what's on their plate.

Sometimes things make us uncomfortable because we're avoiding facing something. It's like when a girl likes a boy so she treats him like crap because she doesn't know how to show it. Christianity has a dirty past. Because of that a lot of people jump boat and go searching elsewhere. But all the boats have holes in them. Just choose the boat with the smallest hole.

gassho
Greg

[disastermouse]

Re: False Teachings

A thoughtful, modern person. That's who you are to judge.

I make judgements all the time, it's a normal function, but if I hold my views to be the true measure of all things I'm not practising, I've lost it. It can be easy to get swept up in views, but in practice views are views as such. Views are touch and go. If I grasp a view as Truth I get taken for a ride, get born as a reactive thing . It's a drag.

I think the truth is not to hold your views. In the end, it's not the views of others to which we must attend - you're very right about that!

Still....when I consider, say 'Wealth Christianity' versus Genpo's stuff, the Wealth Christianity makes me laugh but Genpo makes me think, "Mayday! Mayday!!". Why is that?? It's not so similar to our practice that I think I'm similar to Genpo...but it makes me much more uneasy than charlatan Evangelicals - by a hundredfold factor.

Here's another thing - and I don't think I share this with many, but I don't necessarily equate poor moral decisions with a bankrupt path. I don't see infidelity or other issues as a sign of poor practice mostly because I have some hidden handicaps myself that cause people to make judgments about me that aren't necessarily true. So although a person may fail many times, I don't personally know how much more difficult it may be for that person than it is for me. They may have a severe failing that I do not, but perhaps they fail 10% of the time now when they used to fail 90% of the time. Surely, their path has helped them - but they still have a severe flaw. Nonetheless, they might have much to teach despite evidence of that flaw from time to time.

Chet

[RichardH]

Re: False Teachings

I think the truth is not to hold your views. In the end, it's not the views of others to which we must attend - you're very right about that!

Truth of practice, until views are just no longer bought as advertised. Just seeing thoughts come and go over and over again changes the aspect of view.

Still....when I consider, say 'Wealth Christianity' versus Genpo's stuff, the Wealth Christianity makes me laugh but Genpo makes me think, "Mayday! Mayday!!". Why is that?? It's not so similar to our practice that I think I'm similar to Genpo...but it makes me much more uneasy than charlatan Evangelicals - by a hundredfold factor.

Chistianity is not a monolith, and neither is Buddhism. There is Christian practice that evokes respect in me and practice that evoke disrespect. There is also some absurd Buddhist practice. ...a war over the Buddha's tooth anyone? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relic_o..._of_the_Buddha

Here's another thing - and I don't think I share this with many, but I don't necessarily equate poor moral decisions with a bankrupt path. I don't see infidelity or other issues as a sign of poor practice mostly because I have some hidden handicaps myself that cause people to make judgments about me that aren't necessarily true. So although a person may fail many times, I don't personally know how much more difficult it may be for that person than it is for me. They may have a severe failing that I do not, but perhaps they fail 10% of the time now when they used to fail 90% of the time. Surely, their path has helped them - but they still have a severe flaw. Nonetheless, they might have much to teach despite evidence of that flaw from time to time.

We all fall down all the time. I do, though marital infidelity (occasional fantasy notwithstanding) has not been a line crossed.. My view is that ethical conduct is a no-brainer for someone claiming an officially certified voice of the Dharma . As far as "Big Mind" goes... it just isn't my cup of tea.

[disastermouse]

Re: False Teachings

We all fall down all the time. I do, though marital infidelity (occasional fantasy notwithstanding) has not been a line crossed.. My view is that ethical conduct is a no-brainer for someone claiming an officially certified voice of the Dharma .

I think that's an overly idealistic view. If morals were easy enough that any of us could fully grasp them and get over our deep wounds and crazy by the time we were pronounced 'teachers' - well, I think there'd be a lot fewer problems in the world, wouldn't there? No, I think that even deeply wise, enlightened even, teachers can still be very morally flawed and have a lot of weaknesses.

Chet

[RichardH]

Re: False Teachings

We all fall down all the time. I do, though marital infidelity (occasional fantasy notwithstanding) has not been a line crossed.. My view is that ethical conduct is a no-brainer for someone claiming an officially certified voice of the Dharma .

I think that's an overly idealistic view. If morals were easy enough that any of us could fully grasp them and get over our deep wounds and crazy by the time we were pronounced 'teachers' - well, I think there'd be a lot fewer problems in the world, wouldn't there? No, I think that even deeply wise, enlightened even, teachers can still be very morally flawed and have a lot of weaknesses.

Chet

We have different views on this. Different perspectives.

[disastermouse]

Re: False Teachings

We all fall down all the time. I do, though marital infidelity (occasional fantasy notwithstanding) has not been a line crossed.. My view is that ethical conduct is a no-brainer for someone claiming an officially certified voice of the Dharma .

I think that's an overly idealistic view. If morals were easy enough that any of us could fully grasp them and get over our deep wounds and crazy by the time we were pronounced 'teachers' - well, I think there'd be a lot fewer problems in the world, wouldn't there? No, I think that even deeply wise, enlightened even, teachers can still be very morally flawed and have a lot of weaknesses.

Chet

We have different views on this. Different perspectives.

I'd like some insight into yours - why do you think that, by definition, a deeply realized teacher cannot also have some problems with morality?

Chet

[RichardH]

Re: False Teachings

I'll reflect and post something after work. Right now I have to get my kid to school.... but in a nutshell, it is a matter of how we perceive vows and precepts .. as well as discerning the difference between practising "things as they are" and practising mere egocentric license. Till later. hands palm to palm.

[Hans]

Re: False Teachings

Hello,

an interesting thread...one aspect of this particular scenario might also have to do with the nature of celebrity status. I guess what baffles me personally is the surreal nature of a western guy calling himself Zen Master ( I mean really, how many people in the western Zen World do you know who seem so eager to get an Oprah spin-off show that they introduce themselves with "Hi, my name is XYZ and I am a zen master")

http://myown.oprah.com/audition/index.html?request=video_details&response_id=20850&promo_id=1

... sad as it may be, Mr. Merzel is one of the more well known teacher figures, which makes what he says more important to how Zen is being perceived in our culture in general than if you were to ask an unnown stoner who ate too many agaric mushrooms. That's why some of his actions are not just his problem, but our problem as well.

As for the right or wrong of charging vast amounts of money, well...to use and analogy...there are Franciscans and then there are other orders. I'd side with St. Francis when it comes to viewing clergy and money, but I know other people might have different views. I won't go on a crusade, but I will voice my opinion, even if it's just to show the diversity of POVs.

In an age where a term like Zen is becoming less and less specific as each year goes by, for someone like Mr. Merzel to have a lot of "branding power" is a bit sad indeed. Part of me just refuses (arguably in a childish way) to see the truly great Zen tradition being represented as yet another brick in the wall of shallow consumerism. Just my two rather emotional and unawakened cents.

Gassho,

Hans Chudo Mongen

[RichardH]

Re: False Teachings

Hi Chet. ok.... I'm not saying that keeping the precepts is a no brainer, but that, in my view, keeping the precepts is a reasonable expectation for such a person. A lapse is a lapse, "to err is human", but if a teacher has persistent problems keeping the precepts, the gutsy thing to do is step aside.

Hi Hans. Couldn't watch that whole video, just couldn't. Yikes..

[Hogen]

Re: False Teachings

I've had quite a few discussion on twitter with people who don't like entities which "keep the dharma behind a paywall" e.g. pay-for view websites, etc. I'm speaking more about sites like Elephant Journal which allow so many views a month without subscribing. I never had much issue with that since websites need money to run just as publishers need money to print books and pay authors. Obviously, teachers/authors such as TNH, Pema, Brad Warner, Suzuki, etc have done ok with their books and perhaps made some money for themselves. But I think where Genpo goes obviously wrong is what Warner describes as the "pay for teachings" that he sets up.

[Omoi Otoshi]

False Teachings

It's easy to judge things as good or bad, to judge and condemn the immoral actions of Genpo Merzel, to call him a bad teacher and buddhist. But it may also cause a lot of difficulty in our own lives. We wish things were different, we wish for a better world or a better buddhism, and we get unhappy, unbalanced. It also pleases our egos to be able to say that we are so much better and on the Right path, and that Genpo is an unenlightened crook. It feeds our own delusion. We get angry when Genpo calls himself a Zen Master, daring to place himself among the likes of Dogen Zenji, who is someone many of us in the Soto tradition put upon the highest pedestal. Or when he sells our "sacred" practice for money, like a lowly prostitute. If our practice is ordinary, nothing special, nothing sacred, why do we get so upset? Did we expect Genpo and all Zen teachers to be Buddhas (yes, I know they are) or some sort of super humans? Shouldn't we expect that once in a while, even a teacher makes a mess out of his own life and practice, and the lives and practices of his students. Accept that this is how humans are (and maybe go find another teacher). Accept that we don't live in a perfect world, but in a perfectly imperfect world that in this moment is as perfect as it can be. It's OK. It is what it is. Genpo is what he is and we can't change him. Hating him doesn't help. Being compassionate might. Accepting that Genpo is Genpo (and trying to understand him) doesn't mean we shouldn't do what we can to protect students from being taken advantage of, or express our views. But most importantly, as Gandhi said, we should "be the change you want to see in the world".

Sorry for rambling,
Pontus