Things are different now

[Martin]

Re: Things are different now

Much good advice here.

I can only speak for myself, but I've learned that when the voice in my head sings to me about what my wife "should" be doing I'm in an unhappy place. I'm almost sure that she's a real human being, and has her own perspective, and I would bet that from her perspective the "shoulds" point in the opposite direction.

The voice in my head constantly sings to me that because I practice Zen / work as a mediator / support Norwich City FC / whatever that my perspective on what everyone else "should" be doing is somehow more valid than everyone else's, and I wonder if that perspective is a danger of Zen practice (and of much else).

Gassho

Martin

[Gary]

Re: Things are different now

I work mad shifts too I understand how difficult it is to raise a family when you and your wife pass like ships in the night. We had a rough time last year that nearly broke us, but we worked at it and made some changes, one being that as a family we decided to stop shouting, no more shouting. I believe that yelling and arguing become a habit and become the first port of call in a storm, once you realize this and agree its an issue then you can deal with it. Sometimes though being overly calm in a crisis can be misunderstood as not caring.
My wife isn't Buddhist or religious in any way but she is naturally calm and together, one of her thoughts that I have begun to come round to is, when your children grow up they won't remember a tidy house but they will remember playing football or going for a cycle with their Dad.
I hope this helps, I must go and put the bins out.
Gassho
Gary

[Kaishin]

Re: Things are different now

I've learned that when the voice in my head sings to me about what my wife "should" be doing I'm in an unhappy place.

Looking back on my own such thoughts, I can see how true that is... thank you.

when your children grow up they won't remember a tidy house but they will remember playing football or going for a cycle with their Dad.

Indeed!

[Nenka]

Re: Things are different now

I suppose the best thing for me is to try and understand that her reaction is justified to her and to try not to allow my thoughts of "yelling is pointless" to come to the fore too much. After all, I'm sure she feels truly justified in yelling, or else she wouldn't do it, huh? Thanks.

No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Christopher,

Whenever a marital issue comes up on Treeleaf, I hesitate to say anything. And if I do say anything, I usually worry almost immediately that I've interfered in a situation I know nothing about. The truth is, I don't know your wife, or what your marriage is like, or you, really. But I do know this, and I'm just going to say it.

Your wife should not be yelling at you. Nobody should. It's called verbal abuse for a reason, and it's not good for anyone in your household. If she has so much stress in her life that she's going to scream at you over trivial household matters, that's a serious, destructive problem, and I suggest you find a time when both of you are calm and relaxed to discuss this. Perhaps you (both) can find some books on stress management, conflict resolution, etc. If that doesn't help, I dare say couples counseling might be the next step.

Whatever you do, please, please, do not sit back and take this because you think she feels justified (she's NOT) and because you're a Buddhist. If you really want to do the compassionate thing, please help her to help your marriage. I've seen too many families where kids grow up learning to repeat this kind of behavior.

I apologize if I've overstepped my bounds. Or if it seems I'm making too much of this. It's not lost on me that two of the men here in this thread are talking about having had this problem with their ex-wives.

Much, much metta and best wishes for you and your family. I really want to see you guys get through this.

Jen

[Taigu]

Re: Things are different now

Hi Christopher,

I cannot agree more with Jennifer. This yelling cannot be justified. You probably both have issues and both need to work on them ( as I did when I was with my ex-wife) but Buddhism does not say that you should accept people doing harm to you ( and meanwhile to themselves too). When "loosing it" becomes a habit, that should be gently challenged. And I really think counselling is what is needed because somehow a distorted preception-listening and response is interfering when you talk together.

Just my limited experience.


gassho


Taigu

[Heisoku]

Re: Things are different now

Dear Christopher
Much metta to yourself and your wife. May patience and the original reasons why you are both together prevail.
Best wishes
Nigel.

[Dokan]

Re: Things are different now

I often find that many times what we think is wrong has absolutely nothing, or at least little to do with what is actually wrong. I know that if I am stressed because of work, got cut off by another driver, have to manage unruly kiddos and then my wife 'forgets to take the trash out' then she will be the one I have the tendency to unload on. I have to stay professional at work, the other driver can't hear me rant and rave and the kids are just kids. So she is my outlet. Now, this isn't to say it's acceptable to vent on someone you love, but in many cases you don't even realize that it's happening or understand the load on you until you blow. The challenge is being able to discuss this openly and honestly without defenses kicking up...maybe near impossible. Only suggestion I can offer in this matter is patience and love. Maybe if she is upset with you because of forgotten trash, affirm your mistake, and explain that you understand how she has a lot going on at work, stress from the kids and maybe any other of plethora of things. This may help diffuse the situation and at the same time illuminate her to the load on her that's causing the vent to blow on you...

May not be accurate for your situation but I know I'm guilty of this...so hopefully some could be useful.

On another thought...you also have to realize that you cannot change others...they have to change themselves. Even after you try to help her realize how these things bother you and how you are having a hard time communicating these things, she may continue to get upset at you. Such is the wonderful practice found in relationships.

G

s

[ChrisA]

Re: Things are different now

I'm with Jennifer and Taigu on this one. IMO she can get angry at you, but regular yelling and berating are no good. Here's my suggestion.

When the two of you are having a truly intimate, connected moment, no chores, no kids, just you two, bring it up attempting genuine compassion and understanding for the person you chose to be with. In the moment of yelling, no real talking is going to occur, of course! However, later, bring up the yelling in a way that doesn't treat it as the essence of the relationship but as a particular behavior you'd like to work together on, that sets aside whatever provoked it (trash, dishes) and focuses on the yelling. Ask her how she feels when she's doing it tell her how you feel when she's doing it.

It's gonna be difficult, and she may, indeed, yell! But I think that's the most honest, fair way to do this work. And work it is.

One last point. My doctor, who fiddled with Buddhism back in her 20s, made a point to warn me, in a way, about the challenges of one partner diving into Zen while the other does not. I think that she was referring to the danger of my taking a superior attitude -- or my partner taking an inferior one -- and to the effects of changing the climate of the relationship. My wife is very supportive of my practice, and we do talk Zen stuff now and then. But every once in a while I can sense the tension my doctor was mentioning: yesterday, my wife said something about my "lecture" about something or other, and I thought I had been very, you know, compassionate and understanding. Made me remember my doctor's wry smile when I told her that sort of thing wasn't happening.....

[Taigu]

Re: Things are different now

A very important point Chris, my Japanese partner (we have been five yars together now) is not in the slightest interested in Buddhism. I never talk about practice , let alone lectures on the subject. This is so much more healthier. She respects very much what I do but as she told me last time: " Why do you loose so much time sitting on a cushion?" The tone was quite agressive, I just smiled. Why should I answer? We are getting so well 99,99% of the time. No need of Budddhism in words. Acting as a Buddhist is different; it does not smell, sound even look like Buddhist. But sure it is.

gassho


Taigu ( don't worry, I sometimes loose it too)

[Jinyu]

Re: Things are different now

No need of Budddhism in words. Acting as a Buddhist is different; it does not smell, sound even look like Buddhist. But sure it is.

Just thank you for this apparently so common... but more than helpful teaching! That's a true daily life "rule"...

sampai,
Jinyu

[ChrisA]

Re: Things are different now

So how're you doing, Christopher?

[JohnsonCM]

Re: Things are different now

So how're you doing, Christopher?

Well, I'm trying to process it all to be honest. I had a bit of a blow up with her the other day and said my piece, but I also spoke with her about grief counceling at the VA since she's having some severe difficulty with loosing her father, and I'm obviously missing what she needs at the moment. Anger being one of the stages of grief, I understand that she's angry with what's going on, and (this maybe terrible of me, or not, I'm not sure yet) to a point I can tolerate it, but only to a point. When the anger starts getting turned on me for extended periods of time (and she has a special flavor of anger. I'm a former US Marine, and even I wouldn't say some of the things she does when she gets going) my compassion begins to wear thin, and I think that the heads of Kannon that noone likes to talk about start showing up! We'll do our best and work through it though, what else can we do?

Thanks to all of you for your wisdom and caring.

[ChrisA]

Re: Things are different now

Well, know that there are many of us here thinking of you both. Metta to you and her and hang in there.

[Kaishin]

RE: Things are different now

Please keep us posted... We'll be thinking about you.

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