POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

[Jundo]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

I want to say too ...

Judge a Sangha, teachers, students and any people from their actions when "things are at their worst", when "stuff happens", when life's rubbers meets the road and it ain't all "rainbows, sunshine and flowers". That's when one really sees what's what.

Well, we are seeing this Sangha and its folks in a situation which ain't all "flowers, sunshine and rainbows" ...

... and I think we all can be fairly content with how we are handling the ugly.

Gassho, J

[Jundo]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

I just had a nice chat with Praxis, and I believe the matter is closed at his request.

However, feel free to continue the discussion if anyone wants, as it is important to general Sangha policy and management.

Gassho, J

[Taigu]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

Hi all,

I have serious doubts about Praxis identity, honesty and real intention as he keeps on his shape-shifting dance. Treeleafers are generally very courteous and nice to him and this whole thing is turning into a very sad joke. I would really like to welcome him here and , at the same time, I question his intention and real will to be part of a community without fussing about. I think it would be a good idea to invite him to give it a break and come back later would he wish to do so, after a healthy pause.

gassho


Taigu

[Jundo]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

Thank you ph0kin/Doug.

I am sorry you took that as a snipe at Pure Land practice. It was just my inelegant way of explaining our Zen "need to diet/practice", and that (even though there is nothing to gain/nothing to lose in the Buddha) the Buddha won't do the dieting for us. In our Zenny view anyway.

Here is the full post ...

viewtopic.php?p=33765#p33765

Please keep at it, whatever road calls you.

Gassho, Jundo

[Keishin]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

oh my

what a difference a day (or two) make!

Praxis! I am worried about you...

Surely if only I had fully attended to my practice I would be able to help you...

You do need help, and you have acknowledged such--studying willpower as you are...for impulse control...

Well zen is not therapy. If impulse control is an issue for you, you need to find appropriate therapy.

Zen can be therapeutic, but it is NOT therapy--there IS a difference.

My take of you Praxis, is male, 28, and too clever for your own good. But you can use that cleverness to benefit all mankind, including yourself.
Even if you aren't 28 and male.

You need discipline and I recommend hockey--ice hockey--for that. Discipline will help you in everything else, including zen.
There are some structured (old school) places I would recommend for practice (I will PM you), as you seem to be in the LA area...

I am worried about you.

Do you know what you need and where/how to go to get it?

Zen is not therapy although it can be highly therapeutic. Are you in a position to live at a zen center? I mean if you are interested, really interested you might go for total immersion a la Antai-ji, or Tassajara. Local to you (if you really live in the LA area) would be Kuan-um school Dharma Zen Center in Mid-Wilshire District where you could live in and practice and go about daily activities.
I think you might benefit from old-school structure.
From what little I have seen/know of you: you are well educated and incredibly humorous!
Hockey, ice hockey, as I see it, would fully utilize all your natural gifts (provided you can skate, of course). (Hockey is my true religion).

I recommend, if you don't have one already, that you take up a hobby--any hobby. Nishijima Roshi used to say that zazen was his 'hobby.'
Something you can learn more and more about endlessly. (and that is pretty much the case with just about everything--so you've got a lot to choose from).

OK so so far I've got you into a hobby, and a residential zen center, or at least a highly structured place of practice, and a discipline/sport/exercise program: hockey...
That gives you a portion of the day left for work and if you are in a relationship, then time to keep that going, if you aren't in one at this time, not to worry, between all the above you would be involved in you really don't have much time for much more for the time being.

I wish for you the full flowering of this life, as a human, as a buddhist practitioner.
May you know REALITY.
May your realization benefit all.

Without humans, there are no buddhas.

Do not waste this human life. Time passes so quickly...whether you are having fun or not...

May we all realize the buddha-way together! If I have been duped, so be it. Aspects of you do not lie, even if you try.
We reveal ourselves by every act.
Nothing is hidden.
There is no escape from yourself. Find out why this is wonderful.

I wish you, and everyone posting here, the best.

[Jiki22]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

This morning i was in goalless sitting for one hour,
with an open hart and empty mind,

afterwards i was thinking about this tread,
with some hot green tea,
It is a great dharma,

up's and down's
not understanding each others
who is not open minded
or to fixated on a subject
pointing out to each other,
or maybe not...
it's no problem!

i can only close this with a little koan that i found:
- Wait for that wisest of all counselors, Time -

like Jundo always say in his video
and i quote :

let's us sit by that

*edit : typos

[andyZ]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

Jundo,

I appreciate your giving us a bit of a background on the various issues that were going on around Treeleaf at other forums. I can understand that even other Buddhists would take the idea of an online sangha to be an anathema and express their opinions in less than polite ways. What you and all of us here are trying to do has never been done before so the scepticism and criticism are unavoidable and I would say even useful. But can you really silence all the naysayers? I guess it's the same as what you were saying about Sisyphus and that stone up the mountain. You have to do what you have to do. What I also believe is that the Internet, unfortunately, allows people to talk in ways that they would never do in face to face conversations. Of course, there should be no difference there, but most people don't see it that way.

I think the actions speak much louder than words and people who have been on here for a while know what's at the heart of yours and Taigu's efforts here. I can say that during these several months that I've been here your efforts and advice have helped me in my life and practice, and that's what's important.

[Keishin]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

Training a puppy (herding an ox)

It takes time

Patience

Not everyone can do it, but anyone can.

Over and over again going over and over again the same ground

Taking the fountain of bounding if not boundless energy and flitting-all-over-the-place -awareness and shaping it: giving it areas to inhabit and areas to steer clear of.

Observing behavior is a way to mine information:

Come home to find shoes chewed: observe the shoes chosen for chewing: not a puppy who indiscriminately ‘chews’ but a puppy who picks certain shoes. Let’s say shoes which have stepped in something, maybe a particular something

Now you have information: a puppy with a nose for shit!

Such a nose is a natural ability. While I don’t want my shoes chewed, I also don’t want to punish behavior I haven’t understood, all the while thinking I do.
This nose in the right contexts might locate cancer, might detect bombs. All the time I am punishing what I think is ‘teething’ behavior I am missing the boat so to speak. I am missing opportunity to harness rather than squelch.
This dog might be training me--to be careful where I step, and to check my shoes before stepping into the house...
---------------------------

It happens regularly at zen centers, someone wanders in, an ox in a zendo.
(Maybe someone could create a new set of ox-herding pictures)

The status quo is disrupted. In itself, not a bad thing to have happened. Actually an inevitable event. Zen centers are living places and are in constant flux, life itself, no?
-----------------------

Equanimity is not a state, it is often referred to as a 'state', but I think it is a process, like breathing. To my way of thinking it requires I take the pencil-sketch of what I ‘think’ IS (most of us put thinking in pen, and often use indelible ink) and adjusts this to what IS itself.

If only I could remember to use pencil! Constantly I am encountering the dukka of pen., dukka of my own making (indeed, no one else has ever made it for me) Yet I love using pens! Why can I not remember that pens = trouble.
When I suspend ‘the pen’ and keep it as blank as possible, as few lines as possible, as faint as possible…far fewer if not no ‘problems,’ closer to just meeting things as they IS.


For what it’s worth: these are my odds-box collection of thoughts today. It has been useful for me to have them come to mind and I have all those posting here to thank for giving me things to ponder.

[Dojin]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

Hey everyone.
i tried reading the posts of Praxis. cant make sense of it... i will be honest i dont really know what is going on. but it does seem like in some of hist post he was trying to push a few buttons. it was like listening to own of the patients i work with that their mind is so far gone because of dementia that they speak words and phrases that are not connected to reality.
i think anyone who just tries to stir a commotion and cause a scene, isnt really good for this community. jundo and taigu should have the option to protect their teaching. we practice here in a certain way and maybe that isnt the path place for him.

i will be honest that since i joined treeleaf about 3.5 years ago it has grown to huge proportions. it kinda scares me. i used to read all post everyday. now i cant find the time to read even a fraction. within a few hours of a new topic or post there are about 20 replays. i think jundo once even said that sometimes we should talk less. i do feel things are something beyond words and cant talk about zen any more. i just live it.

Gassho, Dojin.

[Geika]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

i think anyone who just tries to stir a commotion and cause a scene, isnt really good for this community.

I have been on many forums over the years and I have had times in which I recall being obnoxious or judgmental, or both. It wasn't me just trying to stir the pot, though. In those times I remember being deeply troubled and confused. I had a lot of things going on and I just wanted to be sure of something-- anything! I did that by trying to form many beliefs at once, many of which were contradictory, causing such a mess. It was an outward manifestation of my inner confusion. I don't necessarily think that praxis is in the same boat, but I send him or her metta all the same because I know what it's like to stir shit without really meaning to (if, of course, he or she didn't mean to).

we practice here in a certain way

... And yet the ocean accepts all streams.

Do not waste this human life. Time passes so quickly...whether you are having fun or not...

_/_

http://www.treeleaf.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=33765#p33765

Eating too much chocolate cake, under the excuse that "it is all the same" or "there is no goal, nothing in need of change", is not truly dieting. (On the other hand, expecting to only eat carrots ... and never taste chocolate cake again ... may not be realistic.

In a completely unrelated way, this was advice I really needed today. Thank you. _/_

[sittingzen]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

Jundo and Taigu invest precious personal time into the maintenance of this forum and to the growth of our practice without asking for much in return (beyond common civility to each other). That being said, any indivdual that maliciously attempts to disrupt a community in a consistent manner should not be allowed to continue (for a time being) until he/she is able to act with kindness to others. We can disagree, argue, and scream at one another but should only do so with the understanding that we are all here to promote each other's growth and in a way that avoids ad hominem attacks (and disagreements and rational discussions are part of that process). Trolling should not be allowed and should be dealt with (if this is the case).

If Praxix is sincere, I have no issues allowing him/her to continue contributing. If this is a place to just "get your kicks" through mean-spirited attacks, please move on.

Gassho,

Lu

[Taigu]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

Somebody reminded me of an old text written a couple of years ago and that is somehow appropriate here. Once again this practice invites us to direct the flow of questions in the direction of the self. Because of its very nature, Treeleaf is not an abusive structure, and you may find in the hound of barking opponents a clear abusive tendency. For years they have been abusive to Jundo, myself or anybody thinking differently from the muddy teenage like stream that celebrates trashing, swearing, bashing and see in the f word and the likes the ultimate manifestation of prajna. I thank them for this ( reassuring in a way ) and Wish them the vey best.

In my limited experience, zazen exhausts both questions and answers, or if you wish, the need, the urge to be given a map to go and live. When ? and ! are dropped, we are taken back home, which is exactly here and now, a place we never leave. Then our being-time -here-and- now is a living question-answer. Action takes place and arises in this dynamic reality which is not anymore perceived or grasped through fears or hopes. Eating, we eat. Living, we live. Sleeping, we sleep. Or, if I put it another way, zazen is a way to redirect the flow of questions to the very source of our being-time, you actualize the fact that the answers are not anymore over there in books, traditions, teachings but that you are the answer to all the questions you ask. Questions do not beg for an answer but are seen and experienced as a way to wake up to this reality without necessarily putting your paws on any definite answer. A way to wonder, not to wander. It is true that then the whole universe, from toilets to kitchen, work and family and friends and things become the living questions put to us.

[AlanLa]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

Anonymous said...
That AlanLa guy is a knob.

I'm fine with that :lol:

Praxis has been a good teacher in his short time here. Difficult teachers can bring valuable lessons, but there comes a time to let go of such teachers when their lesson is complete. It just might be time to let this praxis teacher go.

Signed,
The Knob
(momentarily giving serious consideration into changing my ID here to this, really, I kind of like it. Can I? maybe I'll rejoin under a new name. No, wait... Umm...)

[Keishin]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

Finally got around to getting the links to send in a PM to Praxis, as I had said I would a few posts back, but his name is not on the membership list.

Feels like standing at a graveside. Or looking out at the backyard after a tornado blew through.

So there is no one to direct the links to. While Praxis can still come here and read, I suppose, I do not feel comfortable leaving links here. These places are on the web, they are local to LA area if that's where you are from Praxis.
What is next for you? Up to you, really.

If you had a few more things to say, well...

the dying embers of this thread won't give off its faint light and fading heat for much longer

Hope you meet up with a good match, please disregard my posting with all the 'suggestions,' I can't help the mom in me coming out sometimes. You are fully capable of managing your own practice, good luck!

[ChrisA]

Re: POSSIBLE MEMBERSHIP REMOVAL DISCUSSION: PRAXIS

Signed,
The Knob
(momentarily giving serious consideration into changing my ID here to this, really, I kind of like it. Can I? maybe I'll rejoin under a new name. No, wait... Umm...)

If Google Translate is correct, the Japanese for "knob" is Nobu. I like it!