your truth about The Four Noble Truths

[Seiryu]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

I don't know if I would called happiness and well being self centered notions at all. Our well being is just as important as another's and happiness and well being is what all beings big or small seem to all be striving for. So what better way to help than to help someone else realize their own happiness.

As for the meaning in life; I don't know is a good answer. Although I do feel that there is no meaning. Not in no point why bother type of way, but I do not think life is a means to anything. Life is life. Complete and perfect it is not lacking nor is it to be lived for any other reasons beside living life for life sake.

Gassho

Seiryu

[Taigu]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

As for the meaning in life; I don't know is a good answer

.

Thank you teacher for marking my prep...

gassho

Taigu

[Taigu]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

Life is misunderstanding and imbalance, bieng convinced by our thoughts and emotions.
It is possible to go passed that.
Shikantaza blossoms
Be as you are.
Practice doesn't end.

Thank you for this, Will. A very accurate Zen translation.

gassho

Taigu

[Myoku]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

First, the four noble truth were a start-point of my buddhist journey. First
reading them I could quickly find them promising (and they not failed
to deliver )

- There is suffering, yep, easy to understand and I could say yes to that
for both myself and the world around me. More even to the world
of wars and hunger and abuse and so on. There is!

- There is a cause of suffering, well, sure, we usually come from a
rather "scientific view", so this was easy to say yes to

- There is an end of suffering, well, sounded immediately logic to
me, because when there is a reason, just work on that

- The Noble Eightfold path leads to end of suffering. Well, this also
sounded familiar (coming from a christian background), and when we
keep in mind that the Four Noble Truth are a Basic teaching, it
is to be kept simple, not ? And its easier for people to understand
they have to follow 8 guidelines than pondering Dogen

To me the Basic teaching of the Four Noble Truth means both its the
fundament of Buddhist teaching as well as its a "introductory" teaching.
So I see this as a perfect way to get people in Buddhism, and it never
gets wrong, as long as you practice. Why that ?

Lets assume the path (and I know the path is not attainable ;-) lets us
walk through broad rivers and over steep mountains. This means we
can be happy to have a boat on the river, but surely not helpful in the
mountains. However, we should not say that there is no boat needed,
just because we think of the mountain. At times the boat has its usage
as the four noble truth have, even though at a different point we see
that all this is illusionary. Not only to even later see that form is empty-
ness and emptyness is form and form is form and emptyness is emptyness.

But right now, int this thread I believe we are at the shelves of the
river and discuss the boat. I think its a fine boat and it perfectly fits
its purpose. Not to be mistaken with the analogy of reaching the other
shore btw.
_()_
Peter

[Geika]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

To boil down the notion of Nirvana to well being is a bit far off for me.

Me too, I admit.

To tell you the truth, I don't know what is the purpose of life, it has a real vast quality that self centered notions like well-being and happiness don't seem to convey.

Beautifully put.

This might be a weird, New Age-y question, Taigu, but do you, by any chance, have a raspy voice at the moment? Perhaps due to illness or something? It's very silly, but for some reason, as I was reading your post, I imagined your voice, but with a touch of laryngitis! I guess I'm testing out my ESP skills, here! :mrgreen:

In any case, I hope you are well.

/ Amelia

[Risho]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

You all teach me so much.. really.

The Four Noble Truths are so practical, yet they are very deep. I guess it's like zazen itself.

There is dukkha. If we don't have what we want, dissatisfaction; if we have what we want, dissatisfaction of what will happen when we don't have what we have.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Easier said than done. But as Will articulated, that's why we practice

Gassho,

Risho

[Saijun]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

You all teach me so much.. really.

The Four Noble Truths are so practical, yet they are very deep. I guess it's like zazen itself.

There is dukkha. If we don't have what we want, dissatisfaction; if we have what we want, dissatisfaction of what will happen when we don't have what we have.

But it doesn't have to be that way. Easier said than done. But as Will articulated, that's why we practice

Gassho,

Risho

Hello Risho,

There was a distinct moment some time ago when I realized that, rather than strictly moderation, the Middle Way was simply the not-picking-up-nor-pushing-away of anything, and it was a very important moment.

I'm no closer to realizing that goal than I was, but at least there is a little more clarity. Practice practice practice.

Metta,

Saijun

[Taigu]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

Hi Saijun,

There was a distinct moment some time ago when I realized that, rather than strictly moderation, the Middle Way was simply the not-picking-up-nor-pushing-away of anything, and it was a very important moment.

A profound insight, indeed. It is important not to be even attached to this view. Relinquishing all views is The Middle way itself.

gassho


Taigu

[will]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

My four noble truths this morning:

Wake up. Take a shower. Sit Zazen. Have breakfast. Look at Treeleaf. So far so good.


Gassho

W

[Seiryu]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

A profound insight, indeed. It is important not to be even attached to this view. Relinquishing all views is The Middle way itself.

If I may:
"Relinquishing all views" is still, in its self, a view. To relinquish all views, we must even relinquish the view about relinquishing all views. Drop the middle way, drop the path, drop everything, and from there continue to move forward.

This path does not bring you anywhere; it only points the way. At some point we must drop the path as well in order to go beyond it.


But then again...

Gassho

Seiryu

[Taigu]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

Indeed, Seiryu. I was just kind of quoting Nagarjuna.

Gassho


T.

[louis]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

Duhkha is translated as suffering. There is an aspect of delusion that it is meant to capture, a self created form that connotes clinging, craving a desire that is unsatisfied. Coming to terms with this, one recognizes that much of our suffering is of our making.

(But I like will's take...)

[ghop]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

My four noble truths this morning:

Wake up. Take a shower. Sit Zazen. Have breakfast. Look at Treeleaf. So far so good.

:lol:

I've heard it said that the path of Zen is the removal of all ideas, concepts, etc. This is an undending practice because we are picking up new ideas, concepts, perceptions, continually. Even our views regarding the Dharma are just "our views." Hence the saying, "Regard all Dharmas as dreams." Ten people can look at the same cloud and see ten different clouds, based upon their perception in that moment. Zen is so refreshingly simple, because when we sit we don't necessarily attain the goal as transcend it. In sitting we go beyond all numbers and concepts and teachings and become Reality itself (which of course we always are). In sitting we go beyond the beyond.

gassho
Greg

[Seiryu]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

Looking at these truths again there are some questions I want to throw out there.

These were the first teachings the Buddha did. Why?

The Buddha became fully enlightened. He got insight in the nature of mind, rebirths, karma, what enlightened is all that great and interesting subjects, yet he choose this to expand upon his old spiritual friends.

of all the things the Buddha could have taught first, why do you think he started here?

Gassho

Seiryu

[Saijun]

Re: your truth about The Four Noble Truths

Looking at these truths again there are some questions I want to throw out there.

These were the first teachings the Buddha did. Why?

The Buddha became fully enlightened. He got insight in the nature of mind, rebirths, karma, what enlightened is all that great and interesting subjects, yet he choose this to expand upon his old spiritual friends.

of all the things the Buddha could have taught first, why do you think he started here?

Gassho

Seiryu

Hello Seiryu,

Perhaps because he was still partially convinced that people had too much "dust in their eyes" to get what he was saying, and as such started with something very simple, easy to digest, to get through to his five companions?

Or, maybe he knew that this was exactly what Kudanna needed to hear to wake up?

Or maybe it was the only part that he could figure out how to put into words.

There can be lots of speculation, but I have a feeling that with practice, the answer will become clear.

Metta,

Saijun